2021 Morgan Dollars 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

 

3 hours ago, VKurtB said:

Pffft! And you were going to get ME one?!?

Evidently, I will have to get one the way the majority will get theirs -- thru a seller at a mark-up.  Ridiculous.

Edit:  Just checked eBay that has lisings from $225 to $499. and promptly filed a complaint, saying "You cannot sell something you do not have and will not be officially released until August 7." I was rebuffed with: "You cannot report an item you have not bought."  I filed a complaint elsewhere.

I was once a subscriber of the Mint but when I misjudged delivery date by a single day, and my letter was returned, I quit.

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Quintus Arrius
Additional comments

[World Colonial]

Just checked eBay sold listings.  Up to $325 for the "CC".

[VKurtB]

52 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

If this becomes a continuing series, expect the same gimmicks currently used for the ASE to extract as much revenue as possible from the buyer (notice I did not state collector) base.

I also expect it to take "share of wallet" at the expense of the ASE.  How much will depend upon the product mix, issue price and mintage. 

There may or will be sufficient increased demand for both, but not with the current mintage for the 2021.  I consider it unlikely that any single classic Morgan or Peace dollar date/MM is owned by anywhere near 175,000 collectors.

Agreed. People in coins seem to believe there are WAAAAAY more people like them than there are in truth. We’re a niche hobby getting more niche by the day. 

[VKurtB]

52 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

 

Evidently, I will have to get one the way the majority will get theirs -- thru a seller at a mark-up.  Ridiculous.

Edit:  Just checked eBay that has lisings from $225 to $499. and promptly filed a complaint, saying "You cannot sell something you do not have and will not be officially released until August 7." I was rebuffed with: "You cannot report an item you have not bought."  I filed a complaint elsewhere.

I was once a subscriber of the Mint but when I misjudged delivery date by a single day, and my letter was returned, I quit.

 

Anything you can do to destroy the “flipper” system is ultimately to this hobby’s benefit 

[gmarguli]

2 hours ago, Alex in PA. said:

United States Mint officials are giving serious consideration to make the 2021 Morgan and 2021 Peace silver dollars the first coins of an ongoing annual series.

Mint Director David J. Ryder raised that possibility during a May 4 Microsoft Teams video conference with numismatic journalists.

The enabling legislation, the 1921 Silver Dollar Coin Anniversary Act, Public Law 116-286, grants the Mint authority to issue additional Morgan and Peace dollars dated 2022 and beyond as an ongoing series.

Ryder said, during the online meeting with numismatic journalists, that he favors the continuation of the series beyond just 2021. Finalization of such a decision will be determined, Ryder said, based on demand for the 2021 releases.

Awesome. Can't wait for the other varieties:

• Westpoint Privy Mark (I don't care that these mints didn't strike Morgan/Peace dollars. We need sales!!)
• Charlotte Privy Mark
• Dahlogena Privy Mark
• Philadelphia Privy Mark (collect both with and without the P versions!)
• Manila Privy Mark
• Colorized version (the eagle side, otherwise it'd be racist)
• Reimaged versions with gender/race neutral profile pics
• Reimaged versions without the eagle, because the eagle is a racist symbol (if I had to explain this to you, you wouldn't understand... you're canceled)
• Curved versions of all the above
• Gold/Platinum/Palladium versions of all the above.
• Proof versions of all
• Reverse proof versions of all
• Matte proof versions of all

[Alex in PA.]

This is just one of some complaints on the Forum ATS:

Comment 1

A friend got an email at 2:43 today...the dreaded "Cancellation Summary"

"One or more items in your order USM0959XXXX has been cancelled. I you did not request a cancellation, it was cancelled because the item(s) are no longer in our inventory and are not available for backorder. We apologize for the inconvenience."

Comment 2

I have exactly the same problem.

In the PAYMENT METHODS section of the ORDER SUMMARY, is blank, no credit card info. That's why my credit card does not show pending transaction.

I called the mint and got through... the lady couldn’t or wouldn’t understand what I was saying so I’m trying again

 

Maybe she No Habla, eh?

Edited May 26, 2021 by Alex in PA.
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[MarkFeld]

2 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

 

Evidently, I will have to get one the way the majority will get theirs -- thru a seller at a mark-up.  Ridiculous.

Edit:  Just checked eBay that has lisings from $225 to $499. and promptly filed a complaint, saying "You cannot sell something you do not have and will not be officially released until August 7." I was rebuffed with: "You cannot report an item you have not bought."  I filed a complaint elsewhere.

I was once a subscriber of the Mint but when I misjudged delivery date by a single day, and my letter was returned, I quit.

 

You CAN report an item you haven't bought - you just can't leave feedback about the seller. I frequently report counterfeits and scams.

[gmarguli]

10 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

You CAN report an item you haven't bought - you just can't leave feedback about the seller. I frequently report counterfeits and scams.

And how many actually get removed? 

I reported numerous counterfeits in the Medieval coin section and not a single one was removed. Sad thing is that some sellers have a bunch of feedback saying the coins were counterfeit, but eBay does nothing.  

[VKurtB]

41 minutes ago, gmarguli said:

And how many actually get removed? 

I reported numerous counterfeits in the Medieval coin section and not a single one was removed. Sad thing is that some sellers have a bunch of feedback saying the coins were counterfeit, but eBay does nothing.  

eBay is crrrrap too. I miss my live auctions nearly every weekend in south central Pennsylvania. I may need a divorce and a return trip. The entire Deep South is a complete numismatic wasteland. An utter disaster. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by VKurtB

[MarkFeld]

2 hours ago, gmarguli said:

And how many actually get removed? 

I reported numerous counterfeits in the Medieval coin section and not a single one was removed. Sad thing is that some sellers have a bunch of feedback saying the coins were counterfeit, but eBay does nothing.  

I don’t keep statistics but I’d guess roughly 70% of the ones I report.

[Henri Charriere]

3 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

You CAN report an item you haven't bought - you just can't leave feedback about the seller. I frequently report counterfeits 

@Alex in PA. Like I said elsewhere, it took awhile but we are all bosom buddies now, see?  With respect to my complaint, Mr. Feld is correct.  I chose a different seller to report and almost instantaneously received a reply courteously pointing out the future seller provided eBay with a confirmation of the purchase and the fact shipments will be sent promptly in August and September.  I predict I will have a Morgan in My Cousin Vinny's hands before the year is out.  If demand is less than underwhelming, I should be able to pick one up for $137.37, my lucky number.

[Henri Charriere]

2 hours ago, VKurtB said:

eBay is crrrrap too. I miss my live auctions nearly every weekend in south central Pennsylvania. I may need a divorce and a return trip. The entire Deep South is a complete numismatic wasteland. An utter disaster. 

Whatever happened to "for better or worse."?  If Just Bob can make do with tokens, it's time you gave yourself a break and get into hubcaps and license plates.  I hesitate to use this four-letter word but have you considered "sale" of the half-ton you can manage to live without?

[Alex in PA.]

1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:

I predict I will have a Morgan in My Cousin Vinny's hands before the year is out.  If demand is less than underwhelming, I should be able to pick one up for $137.37, my lucky number.

I always admire those of us who possess the gift of Faith.  However, you have my permission to refer to me as 'Alex the Pessimist'.    

[VKurtB]

2 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Whatever happened to "for better or worse."?  If Just Bob can make do with tokens, it's time you gave yourself a break and get into hubcaps and license plates.  I hesitate to use this four-letter word but have you considered "sale" of the half-ton you can manage to live without?

There WILL BE several 1,500 mile round trips to central PA this year (2021) or I’ll die of withdrawal symptoms for that numismatic environment in PA. I told the wife there may be only a few days’ notice I’m going. You have NO idea how sorry I am that I didn’t take my dad’s advice and get a pilot’s license. He got his at age 15 in 1937. Had the draft not ended when it did, I would have it. I had an appointment to the Air Force Academy in my hand, but declined when the draft ended. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

10 hours ago, World Colonial said:

Totally correct.

The coin is a relative novelty but not that interesting to more than a low proportion of the collector base except at a nominal price.

If the reasoning in the prior post reflected actual behavior, then the price level across the board would be much higher, since practically every coin will be "scarce" under this reasoning.

The only reason any US NCLT above a nominal price sells for current premiums is due to a substantial speculative component.  There are unlikely anywhere near enough collectors who can both afford to pay current prices and actually want it as a collectible.

With these Morgan dollars, most will want one coin where the supply is at least 175,000 for each mint mark.  Many real Morgan dollars sell for the same or less in grades of MS-64 and maybe MS-65, especially if I read correctly that these are selling for $200 (or more) on eBay right now.

And the current prices, or HIGHER, maybe even much higher, are what we are going to see from now on. The old days of affordable U.S. numismatic products are gone forever. 

[Henri Charriere]

1 hour ago, Alex in PA. said:

I always admire those of us who possess the gift of Faith.  However, you have my permission to refer to me as 'Alex the Pessimist'.    

You've seen the eBay listings. Have you noticed how many have a "Best Offer" option? What, me worried? My attitude is going to be sit back, wait and see. And when the suckers have all cleared out, pounce!

[World Colonial]

21 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

And the current prices, or HIGHER, maybe even much higher, are what we are going to see from now on. The old days of affordable U.S. numismatic products are gone forever. 

Shorter term, your sentiments seem to be accurate and I do not disagree.  This is why I chose not to collect US coinage when I resumed collecting in 1998.  I had a more limited budget back then but even with a bigger one now, it's not like I can afford much more that I will actually want to buy which I like much less than what I buy now anyway.  It also isn't mostly due to quality since I don't care much about hair splitting differences which I consider trivial but are an obsession in US collecting.

Edited May 27, 2021 by World Colonial

[VKurtB]

5 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

Shorter term, your sentiments seem to be accurate and I do not disagree.  This is why I chose not to collect US coinage when I resumed collecting in 1998.  I had a more limited budget back then but even with a bigger one now, it's not like I can afford much more that I will actually want to buy which I like much less than what I buy now anyway.  It also isn't mostly due to quality since I don't care much about hair splitting differences which I consider trivial but are an obsession in US collecting.

If these specific prices hold up (which I do not expect), it has to be primarily due to financially motivated buying.  These coins are somewhat more interesting than most US modern commemoratives but practically as common as dirt.  There are far more interesting (though financially less liquid) coins available for (noticeably) less.

Absolutely. My only point is that current Mint prices are mandated by current budget and accounting rules for federal agencies. They are simply not allowed to be subsidized in any way whatsoever. All costs (and all means all) must be borne by the purchasers. It wasn’t always that way, but it will be that way from now on. Want a competently run website? Prepare to pay out the nose personally. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

EDITORIAL COMMENT

Every week they have a demonstration in New York's Union Square Park, a tradition that goes back many years.  Last week, I spotted a flag and language shouted by a people I never even knew existed in Union Square. Turns out they were native Burnese (their choice of word) protesting the dictatorship in their native land.  A small but very vocal group that outnumbered the Falun Dala crowd protesting the Chinese Communist Party in 🇨🇳 China. (For those of you wondering if the Hare Khrishna crowd is still running around in saffron-colored robes, the answer is yes, and they haven't changed in the sixty years I've known them.)

In any event, if there can be a Banksy, I think there ought to be a Mintsy whose job it would be, to put it the way the infamous Mad Bomber George Metesky put it, expose the dastardly deeds of the U.S. Mint. Mint products are out of control, their ordering system.is antiquated and they play a significant part in the accellerating the downfall of products the hobby depends on. When's the last time they put out a notable product eagerly awaited by the American public at an attainable price?  If citizens can band together to boycott a bus, they are perfectly capable of boycotting shoddy workmanship, an order procedure that's gone haywire and once reasonable prices that have gone thru the roof. I say enough, is enough.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Quintus Arrius
Misspelling; closing parenthesis.

[Just Bob]

"Make do?"

[Henri Charriere]

14 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

"Make do?"

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."  

[Alex in PA.]

12 hours ago, VKurtB said:

Prepare to pay out the nose personally.

Aren't the people doing that now?  I mean $85.00 for $21.00 worth of Silver bullion.  Looks like a good profit to me.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Alex in PA.
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[VKurtB]

32 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

Aren't the people doing that now?  I mean $85.00 for $21.00 worth of Silver bullion.  Looks like a good profit to me.

It’s a good “margin”, but a small “profit”. Costs other than silver make up the vast majority of the costs. Check out the prices on the new commemorative clad halves. There’s NO precious metal in them. The prices will only be going up from here.

 

I mean, it’s as if none of you have ever heard of the Government Accounting Standards Board, or GASB. There are federal rules that impact all the way down to your local town council. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

@VKurtB Never mind the Federal rules, I am still trying to figure out which of the two is more cost-effective: getting a pilot's license and flying up to to the Commonwealth, and presumably renting a rickshaw and runner to get around the back roads, gas prices being what they are, or simply locomoting about as a hobo or vagabond with a large enough bandana on a broken broomstick?  🤔

[VKurtB]

2 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

@VKurtB Never mind the Federal rules, I am still trying to figure out which of the two is more cost-effective: getting a pilot's license and flying up to to the Commonwealth, and presumably renting a rickshaw and runner to get around the back roads, gas prices being what they are, or simply locomoting about as a hobo or vagabond with a large enough bandana on a broken broomstick?  🤔

750 miles each way. Worth every mile to access Pennsylvania’s unique numismatic culture and market. 
 

By the way, this is why I’ll never own an electric car. Need at least 750 mile range. I fill up near Chattanooga and again at Wytheville, Virginia, and then roll in to south central PA. 
 

My local station is $2.69 a gallon. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

I’ve been literally everywhere in the United States chasing coins, and there is nowhere as collector friendly as south central Pennsylvania, full stop. 
 

And most of it is at live auction and the vast majority have never been to Sarasota or Southern California, much less Albanese’s desk. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

3 hours ago, VKurtB said:

750 miles each way. Worth every mile to access Pennsylvania’s unique numismatic culture and market. 
 

By the way, this is why I’ll never own an electric car. Need at least 750 mile range. I fill up near Chattanooga and again at Wytheville, Virginia, and then roll in to south central PA. 
 

My local station is $2.69 a gallon. 

Let's see... 750 miles each way. 1,500 miles round- trip.  I wonder if you are aware that's only 3-1/2 miles less than driving from BOSTON, MA to MIAMI, FL, which takes 22 hrs. and 25 minutes, basically a day, presumably non-stop or with rotating drivers and pit stops!

Not to cast hasty aspersions on your good name, but weren't you the same member who good-naturedly questioned whether our ever-upbeat GoldFinger1969 was perhaps a bit "obsessed" with his focused interest in double-eagles?      🤔

Nevertheless, I wish you all the best in your quest to find that elusive piece that rumor has it will effectively satiate your thirst for "the one that got away," once and for all, firmly and with finality.  

[Alex in PA.]

3 hours ago, VKurtB said:

750 miles each way. Worth every mile to access Pennsylvania’s unique numismatic culture and market. 
 

Have your Passport ready; we don't allow folks from them furin countries in.   

Edited May 27, 2021 by Alex in PA.

[Alex in PA.]

3 hours ago, VKurtB said:

there is nowhere as collector friendly as south central Pennsylvania,

So very true and Welcome Home.   

[VKurtB]

23 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

Have your Passport ready; we don't allow folks from them furin countries in.   

I have a passport and a completed COVID vaccination card, so Governor Wolf can just bite me. 
 

The quadrilateral defined by the vertices of Reading, Lancaster, York, and maybe Selinsgrove is as close to numismatic heaven as exists. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by VKurtB