Anyone else pumped for the 2021 Peace Dollar?
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95 posts in this topic

47 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

Mr. Burdette wrote The Definitive book on Peace dollars. I fail to see how he is under any "obligation" to post a video on the subject, especially on a website that is known for misleading and sensationalist videos.

Your point is well-taken. The problem here is a simple one.  Our generation reads books and a host of other written materials.

The newer, younger generations -- particularly with the closure of some giant book stores and untold scores of independents, are so unfamiliar with the written word that while the Bible may be the biggest best seller of all time, few have read if cover to cover.

So enamored of videos is the younger generation that they will eagerly waive their Miranda rights to appear in or otherwise star in a police videotaped interrogation or videos of their own making to showcase their talents.

Penmanship is no longer being taught in schools. In fact, many people, cannot read or right and when asked what they would like to order at fast-food restaurants, point at pictures on the wall behind the registers. (Have you observed some of those incomprehensible, typo-laden errors here, e.g., "loop" referring to loupe.) It's a matter of the medium used to spread the message.  Life, Look, Time, the Saturday Evening Post, Reader's Digest, Mad magazine and untold newspapers are gone forever.

If you were to review the 100 greatest books of all time and ask someone what part they remember most, they will more likely than not refer to a scene they saw in the movie version.

At 70, I am by no means a spring chicken, but it seems to me a notation in a column marked CORRECTIONS AND AMPLIFICATIONS buried in a daily newspaper like The New York Times, Washington Post or Wall Street Journal cannot compete with a short video on the World Wide Web.

If there is a video on YouTube propagating misleading, or just plain wrong content it should not go unchallenged.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Your point is well-taken. The problem here is a simple one.  Our generation reads books and a host of other written materials.

The newer, younger generations -- particularly with the closure of some giant book stores and untold scores of independents, are so unfamiliar with the written word that while the Bible may be the biggest best seller of all time, few have read if cover to cover.

So enamored of videos is the younger generation that they will eagerly waive their Miranda rights to appear in or otherwise star in a police videotaped interrogation or videos of their own making to showcase their talents.

Penmanship is no longer being taught in schools. In fact, many people, cannot read or right and when asked what they would like to order at fast-food restaurants, point at pictures on the wall behind the registers. (Have you observed some of those incomprehensible, typo-laden errors here, e.g., "loop" referring to loupe.) It's a matter of the medium used to spread the message.  Life, Look, Time, the Saturday Evening Post, Reader's Digest, Mad magazine and untold newspapers are gone forever.

If you were to review the 100 greatest books of all time and ask someone what part they remember most, they will more likely than not refer to a scene they saw in the movie version.

At 70, I am by no means a spring chicken, but it seems to me a notation in a column marked CORRECTIONS AND AMPLIFICATIONS buried in a daily newspaper like The New York Times, Washington Post or Wall Street Journal cannot compete with a short video on the World Wide Web.

If there is a video on YouTube propagating misleading, or just plain wrong content it should not go unchallenged.

I am part of the generation that is losing reading/writing capabilities... That is Gen Z... It's sad to see that A LOT of my peers have horrible penmanship, can't read or write, and can't even speak or write in proper grammar... I'm one of the odd ones out since I purposely take the time to train myself proper grammar. There are some things that I've learned to do in school such as speaking proper grammar... While I don't have the best penmanship, mine is definitely legible. I know you older folks look down in shame at how the newer generation has grown, and it's not good, in fact it's extraordinarily sad. I wish the schools would try harder in making this stuff work and I wish there were limits on how social media is accessed since, this is how and why people have no want or need to learn to read and write.

Now, onto YouTube.... YouTube is a very untrustworthy platform but I've learned how to tell the difference between real and fake, and yet, I still get fooled from time to time. That said, people with lesser knowledge of this still get fooled. For example, when the COVID-19 pandemic started, there were tons of videos going around about "How to cure (or protect) yourself from COVID" and people would be drinking bleach...then they'd believe it, try themselves, and end up in the hospital or worse. There were also people saying COVID was just a government hoax and people believed it thinking COVID was completely fake... No, no it's not... Those are just a few examples of how gullible people can be... You really need to be vigilant on YouTube and if you see a "fact" there, you may need to fact check it. I watched a video just yesterday on the evolution of Earth. The person in the video said that humans evolved from monkeys and this has been proven to be false by scientists, and, since I knew this to be false already kind of just brushed it off... But my point is (like many people on this thread have said before) don't believe everything you see on YouTube... fact checking this or any video is the best thing to do ESPECIALLY if it came from a source known for its "Tom Foolery."

Edited by UrbanDecay4
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

  @RWB was a bit more explicit in his utter rejection of the presentation, but it seems to me one more learned in such matters, has an obligation to offer a more meaningful point-counterpoint video to the collector community beyond rebukes, epithets and denouncements.

My responsibility as an author is to present the best, most timely and accurate information I can, as objectively as possible. That's what I do. But, I cannot ensure that others will accept such responsibility or even care. I recognize absolutely no obligation to repair, replace or otherwise condone false information and patent expressions of ignorance and laziness by either the video presenter or anyone else. The video presenter simply had to open one of several modern books and read a little - first - before publishing something that will confuse hundreds of gullible netizens.

I fully understand that Quintus and others might view the on-line presentation and mutter "Well, golly gee willikers, Ain't that somethin' special, now!" and exhibit no further thought. However, the producer of this and mimic videos, has a responsibility to be truthful and accurate when THEY are authors of a video or any other form of public communication. Did any of those here who viewed the video contact the perpetrator (Sahara Coins") and offer references where the fellow could learn about the subject? Anyone offer to revise the --script or reshoot the thing? Probably not. (I would, but their business has to pay for it.)

Edited by RWB
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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, RWB said:

My responsibility as an author is to present the best, most timely and accurate information I can, as objectively as possible. That's what I do. But, I cannot ensure that others will accept such responsibility or even care. I recognize absolutely no obligation to repair, replace or otherwise condone false information and patent expressions of ignorance and laziness by either the video presenter or anyone else.

I fully understand that Quintus and others might view the on-line presentation and mutter "Well, golly gee willikers, Ain't that somethin' special, now!" and exhibit no further thought. However, the producer of this and mimic videos, has a responsibility to be truthful and accurate when THEY are authors of a video or any other form of public communication. Did any of those here who viewed the video contact the perpetrator (Sahara Coins") and offer references where the fellow could learn about the subject? Anyone offer to revise the ---script or reshoot the thing? Probably not. (I would, but their business has to pay for it.)

I respect your view on that... I was going to watch the video up until I saw your post so I'd rather not be fed false info from YT and then absorb that info thinking it's true... so thank you for that! Plus I'm a Peace Dollar collector and I don't want to know false info that I may later spew out confusing it for something true that I heard... I already have a bad memory, no need to make it worse

-UD04

Edited by UrbanDecay4
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Posted (edited)

The Guide Book series on Peace dollars is a good start. Much deeper information is in Renaissance of American Coinage 1916-1921. I researched and wrote both books. (The Whitman book is in its 4th edition. RAC 1916-1921 is out of print - its 15 years old. You can find reviews on-line, and possibly a used copy. It's also available on interlibrary loan - I made sure that several libraries had circulation copies when it was published.)

NOTE: My little tirade is not an objection to the perpetrator's free speech; he can say wherever he wants. But every right, comes with associated responsibilities. For fact-based things like numismatics, one of those responsibilities is truthfulness. That simply means that business people in numismatics have a higher order for truthful communication than a couple of collectors yakking at a coin show.

Edited by RWB
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@RWB I took the liberty of checking on the brief bio of the gentlemen who extolled the objectionable video to the heavens and discovered he resides overseas. This complicates matters somewhat raising many more questions than it answers. . . He is a fairly new member.  Was he born here?  Is he visiting overseas there or now a permanent resident? Was the video he found an inadvertent discovery?  Obviously, there was no malicious intent intended and if he was unaware the video he viewed was wrong, the reviews here will persuade him to reconsider his impression and prompt him to investigate the matter further. And your rebuttal here will serve as a warning to others that he who has published a definitive book on the Peace dollar does not endorse the views as expressed and presented in the video.  My only regret is not knowing enough about the specific comments found to be objectionable to lodge a formal complaint with You Tube or Sahara.

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3 hours ago, UrbanDecay4 said:

I am part of the generation that is losing reading/writing capabilities... That is Gen Z... It's sad to see that A LOT of my peers have horrible penmanship, can't read or write, and can't even speak or write in proper grammar... I'm one of the odd ones out since I purposely take the time to train myself proper grammar. There are some things that I've learned to do in school such as speaking proper grammar... While I don't have the best penmanship, mine is definitely legible. I know you older folks look down in shame at how the newer generation has grown, and it's not good, in fact it's extraordinarily sad. I wish the schools would try harder in making this stuff work and I wish there were limits on how social media is accessed since, this is how and why people have no want or need to learn to read and write.

Now, onto YouTube.... YouTube is a very untrustworthy platform but I've learned how to tell the difference between real and fake, and yet, I still get fooled from time to time. That said, people with lesser knowledge of this still get fooled. For example, when the COVID-19 pandemic started, there were tons of videos going around about "How to cure (or protect) yourself from COVID" and people would be drinking bleach...then they'd believe it, try themselves, and end up in the hospital or worse. There were also people saying COVID was just a government hoax and people believed it thinking COVID was completely fake... No, no it's not... Those are just a few examples of how gullible people can be... You really need to be vigilant on YouTube and if you see a "fact" there, you may need to fact check it. I watched a video just yesterday on the evolution of Earth. The person in the video said that humans evolved from monkeys and this has been proven to be false by scientists, and, since I knew this to be false already kind of just brushed it off... But my point is (like many people on this thread have said before) don't believe everything you see on YouTube... fact checking this or any video is the best thing to do ESPECIALLY if it came from a source known for its "Tom Foolery."

They never taught either one of my kids to write in cursive in school. They can't hardly sign their names. 

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1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:

 

@RWB I took the liberty of checking on the brief bio of the gentlemen who extolled the objectionable video to the heavens and discovered he resides overseas. This complicates matters somewhat raising many more questions than it answers. . . He is a fairly new member.  Was he born here?  Is he visiting overseas there or now a permanent resident? Was the video he found an inadvertent discovery?  Obviously, there was no malicious intent intended and if he was unaware the video he viewed was wrong, the reviews here will persuade him to reconsider his impression and prompt him to investigate the matter further. And your rebuttal here will serve as a warning to others that he who has published a definitive book on the Peace dollar does not endorse the views as expressed and presented in the video.  My only regret is not knowing enough about the specific comments found to be objectionable to lodge a formal complaint with You Tube or Sahara.

A "coin dealer" with logo T-shirts and who publishes video presentations holds himself out to the public as an "expert." You are making excuses for the dissemination of ignorance by business person who has no excuse for such actions. If you are so much on the guy's "team," then call him, tell him about the error-filled video, and give him the names of modern sources of information. (Some of the claims don't appear in any older publications that I'm aware of - were they invented on-the-fly?

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Posted (edited)

In reality, Quintus, you are saying that all the investigation, data collection, analysis, correlation, presentation and publication of objective research is valueless - on the same level of honesty, and no more useful, or meaningful than any error-filled discourse found on the internet, or on the underside of a slippery rock.

My reaction is strong because it is a direct insult to everyone who tries their best to "get it right." You are really saying that the 5 or even 10 years that go into building an honest, accurate story is of no more value than the off-the-cuff tout of a carney hawing funnel cakes.

OK -- sorry folks. Just wanted to be clear about my position on this stuff.

Edited by RWB
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24 minutes ago, RWB said:

A "coin dealer" with logo T-shirts and who publishes video presentations holds himself out to the public as an "expert." You are making excuses for the dissemination of ignorance by business person who has no excuse for such actions. If you are so much on the guy's "team," then call him, tell him about the error-filled video, and give him the names of modern sources of information. (Some of the claims don't appear in any older publications that I'm aware of - were they invented on-the-fly?

No, not at all.  All I am saying is the member of this Forum (whose name appears earlier in the thread) may have been impressed with what he had heard on the video and simply suggested it to us, from overseas, wholly unaware of the hard facts, of which, not being a M or P dollar collector myself, even I am unaware.  I am willing to give our member the benefit of the doubt.  I can speak to neither he nor Casey because I, myself, do not know the facts. I am certain he is following this thread and realizes he misspoke but what else can he do but say, "Oh, by the way, I have since been advised the presentation is riddled with inaccuracies and can no longer in good conscience advise serious collectors to view it."

I am entirely on your side in this. I believe any reasonable person who simply did not know better could make the same mistake.  I know I certainly could. Absolutely no offense was intended.

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On 5/19/2021 at 5:22 PM, Revenant said:

Because that's what the world and the US needs... another annual NCLT issue. lol

I reads it may become an annual on-going series.  If it happens, I expect it to take "share of wallet" from the ASE.

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On 5/19/2021 at 8:19 PM, MsMorrisine said:

at $85 each, is it in everyone's budget?

By my definition of collector, a noticeable proportion do not and likely never will own a coin at this price point, adjusted for future purchasing power/inflation.  

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On 5/20/2021 at 7:20 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I am willing to give our member the benefit of the doubt. 

No one will ever need to accuse me of this. I am of the “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” school of thought in as many areas as I can manage. 
 

As for YouTube per se, the incentives in YouTube are perverse. It encourages wild unsupported claims to be made. And incentives are usually determinative of outcomes. Truth and clicks are often 180 degrees out of phase. YouTube creates sensationalism by design. 

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39 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

I reads it may become an annual on-going series.  If it happens, I expect it to take "share of wallet" from the ASE.

Leave the fantasy date tributes to Dan Carr. 

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Revenant said:

Yeah... that's the rub, isn't it?

It would not surprise me if in the vicinity of 50% of the collector base doesn't own a coin at or above $85.  This may seem odd to those who post here or the PCGS forum but shouldn't be to those who treat coin collecting as an alternate consumption expense, not an "investment".

I didn't have a chance to respond earlier, but to the point of the OP, these two will be somewhat interesting to a noticeable minority of the collector base, but not as a continuing series and likely only near the issue price. 

As other posts have pointed out, you can buy a Morgan or Peace dollar which actually did or was at least made for circulation, for the same or less.  This as opposed to a bullion round (that's what a .999 fine "coin" actually is) selling for a big premium to spot.

Edited by World Colonial
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 I would like to have both, for no particular reason, but believe I will not be able to acquire one at post-time.  Silver is rising in fits and starts and I can only hope when an ecapsulation with a fancy label comes out, TT (trimmed talons bearing one less arrow) I will be able to pick one up at the least outrageous/unconscionable price, not to exceed $137. That may take a few years.

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Posted (edited)

Okay, Back on Track...

At two minutes before 12 noon New York, Eastern Daylight "post-time," I placed a 📞 to the Mint on my [wife's] 📲. and jotted down "21XC" indicating the stock number for the 2021-CC coin.  After a few rings, an autopilot picked up on it and referred it to Ms. Robocall, who even requested I answer the "one- or two-minute" satisfaction survey at the end of the call -- then... 😀 nope! Got a steady, hurried busy signal. Curses!

To repeat my experience, all you would have to do is repeat this a dozen times before realizing you had struck out.  I never had a chance. I calculated, incredibly, that in between milli-seconds -- the time a caller concluded his business before another caller was connected -- I would slip in and place my order. I assumed karma would recognize my prior relationship with the finest members 👌 associated with NGC and secretly queue my call.  Sadly, it was not to be, a shame considering I have never owned a "CC," particularly one featured on a raised oval platform, and have no interest in the forthcoming issues.  I thought I was a contender. And instead was exposed for the loser and nobody of consequence I am and likely always will be. (Bad enough no less than three WARNINGS are engraved on my NGC bio.

So that's it in a nutshell.  Now I have no choice but to buy the encapsulated version in the fall. You know, the one with the special NGC Label.

I better go🚶now 😩 to feed my 🐓. 🐓  🐓 .

  

Edited by Quintus Arrius
Correct general incoherence.
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Only way I'd be pumped would be if hey made a proof version.  Without that I have no interest.  Good news, one less person competing for them.

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Okay, alright...kinda late with the special requests, but okay...one more for the Mighty Conder!  One 2021 Proof, comin' up!  We'll even go the extra mile and sets yours up so you and your family can see it being made.  We'll fly you and yours in for an unprecedented three-day, all-expenses paid tour of a Mint of your choosing with a document attesting to the product's unique #0001 status signed by the Mint director.  How's that sound?  We'll even include a special label should you decide to have your flawless gem certified in an encapsulation of your choice. You will be the first visitor accorded this honor and there will plenty of photographers on hand to record the event for posterity. Who knows, depending on collector demand, we can choose to continue making Proofs annually culminating in a special feature to distinguish this coin from all others in time for the country's 250th sestercentennial!

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2 hours ago, Conder101 said:

Good news, one less person competing for them.

Make that two less.  :gossip:

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On the Forum ATS some folks are saying they are getting E-Mails from the US Mint saying their orders have been cancelled.  if this is so I have no idea what to think.

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3 hours ago, Alex in PA. said:

On the Forum ATS some folks are saying they are getting E-Mails from the US Mint saying their orders have been cancelled.  if this is so I have no idea what to think.

There is evidently an attempt to remove larger orders so more individuals can have a coin.

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9 minutes ago, RWB said:

There is evidently an attempt to remove larger orders so more individuals can have a coin.

No, that's not what I read.  By larger order; what do you mean.  Most could only order 5 of each which was the Mint set limit.  Some were saying they had two coins cancelled.  I don't know; didn't get any.

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Attempts by some to pool individual maximums to evade limits. Would have been simpler to sell one per person/household/delivery address, etc.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, RWB said:

Would have been simpler to sell one per person/household/delivery address, etc.

Absolutely, positively agree.  It is too bad that the US Mint personnel cannot think in terms like this.  

There are a lot of disappointed customers and that disappointment equates to money lost on the Mint's part.

However:  When it comes to the hobby world - For every action there is an opposite and unequal over reaction.  9_9

Edited by Alex in PA.
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...and if it was not a sell out, raise limits for those who want to speculate and maybe add a few dollars to the cost, too.

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On 5/20/2021 at 2:28 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Your point is well-taken. The problem here is a simple one.  Our generation reads books and a host of other written materials.

The newer, younger generations -- particularly with the closure of some giant book stores and untold scores of independents, are so unfamiliar with the written word that while the Bible may be the biggest best seller of all time, few have read if cover to cover.

So enamored of videos is the younger generation that they will eagerly waive their Miranda rights to appear in or otherwise star in a police videotaped interrogation or videos of their own making to showcase their talents.

Penmanship is no longer being taught in schools. In fact, many people, cannot read or right and when asked what they would like to order at fast-food restaurants, point at pictures on the wall behind the registers. (Have you observed some of those incomprehensible, typo-laden errors here, e.g., "loop" referring to loupe.) It's a matter of the medium used to spread the message.  Life, Look, Time, the Saturday Evening Post, Reader's Digest, Mad magazine and untold newspapers are gone forever.

If you were to review the 100 greatest books of all time and ask someone what part they remember most, they will more likely than not refer to a scene they saw in the movie version.

At 70, I am by no means a spring chicken, but it seems to me a notation in a column marked CORRECTIONS AND AMPLIFICATIONS buried in a daily newspaper like The New York Times, Washington Post or Wall Street Journal cannot compete with a short video on the World Wide Web.

If there is a video on YouTube propagating misleading, or just plain wrong content it should not go unchallenged.

This is PRECISELY why the younger generations will never gain the respect of us “Boomers”. I spent my son’s entire childhood attempting to repair the damage inflicted on him by the public schools with malicious intent, IMO. 

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14 hours ago, Alex in PA. said:

On the Forum ATS some folks are saying they are getting E-Mails from the US Mint saying their orders have been cancelled.  if this is so I have no idea what to think.

Groundhog Day all over again.  

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