Carbon spots , fly specks on modern silver 0

[Jason Abshier]

A guy at work purchased a modern 1984-S Olympic silver dollar graded out at PF69 , he showed it to me at work asked me “how can it grade out at 69?” He’s a new collector as soon as I saw it under light I could see what he was talking about small brown specks. I call them coffee ground specks , he learned a lesson about buying online pictures don’t show all details I explained to him at one time the coin was probably bright white they graded it respectfully 69 later it tarnished with specks in the holder over the years nothing anyone can do about it , it’s a reaction that happened at mint when they had to handle and wash the planchets before striking . At least he can return his coin for his money back I don’t know why seller wouldn’t disclose the fact that coin had specks on it , but they accept a return seems like a waste a time shipping back and forth . I’m sure we all see silver eagles and maple leafs tiny speck on coins , I wonder how much someone lost spending big money on MS70’s and PF70’s silver coinage to later find out it developed tiny coffee ground specks all over it. I feel their pain ! That’s one of main reasons why I won’t buy modern silver coin graded at 70

[Coinbuf]

There have been many stories of PF/MS70 and 69 graded coins that later developed spots such as those you describe and milk spots.  There is indeed nothing that can be done, sometimes a quick dip will lighten or remove the spots for awhile, but in most cases they return again.  As to why the seller did or does not disclose the spots is that for every one that gets returned five other sales do not.   Many older buyers simply do not see them or if they do they just keep the coin and move on.  Some sellers know this and play the odds since it favors the seller.

[RWB]

The dark spots are caused by airborne contamination. It can occur any time the coin is exposed to air during production or when removed for its original container for repackaging. Once visible, there is no remedial action. The damage is not reversible.

[J P M]

I just got a 1999 ASE that I needed for my Grandchildren's collection.  It has some very light milk spots on it I chose the spots over 4 other coins that had nicks or scratches kind of the lesser of two evils. As long as they don't get darker it will be fine but I think they will eventually.  

[Henri Charriere]

[Funny how I am old enough 🤣 to remember a time when such phenomena were considered normal, natural and not totally unexpected.  Those, of course, were the days when proof coins were simply proof coins with no grades attached.]

[Jason Abshier]

Some of modern silver coinage and bullion reminds me of Peace dollars are a victim of the ugly brown freckles scattered all over the coin  I don’t know what it with peace dollars I’ve seen tons and tons of them ugly full of brown freckles I’ve only saw a small handful over the years that grew a nice target rainbow on them unlike Morgans probably due to fact Morgans sat in bank vault in bags that contained sulfur over all years produced that rainbow toning 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Jason Abshier

[RWB]

Incidental spots and discoloration/tarnish are normal for circulation coins. But pieces intended as "perfect" should not have them - at anytime during their collecting journey. This is especially true for NCLT/bullion proofs and other such for-profit products. The highly polished mirror surfaces only make spotting more distracting.

[Jason Abshier]

8 hours ago, RWB said:

The highly polished mirror surfaces only make spotting more distracting.

Very true , on some business strikes tiny pin needle spots don’t bother me much , highly mirrored proof coins tiny spots show up easier it would no longer be a 69 or 70 (IMO) heavily discounted coin unless someone doesn’t mind it can get past it but PF69 1984 Olympic dollar is not a high end coin plenty of them to go around and pick from. I’d just buy a better looking one spot free I’d throw ugly one in the slab box let keep turning brown and ugly waiting for silver prices go up and take it to gold and silver buyer as junk silver no use to even trying to clean or dip a highly mirror proofed coin 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Jason Abshier

[J P M]

8 minutes ago, Jason Abshier said:

Very true , on some business strikes tiny pin needle spots don’t bother me much , highly mirrored proof coins tiny spots show up easier it would no longer be a 69 or 70 (IMO) heavily discounted coin unless someone doesn’t mind it can get pass it but PF69 1984 Olympic dollar is not a high end coin plenty of them to go around and pick from. I’d just buy a better looking one spot free I’d throw ugly one in the slab box let keep turning brown and ugly waiting for silver prices go up and take it to gold and silver buyer as junk silver no use to even trying to clean or dip a highly mirror proofed coin 

 

11 hours ago, J P Mashoke said:

I just got a 1999 ASE that I needed for my Grandchildren's collection.  It has some very light milk spots on it I chose the spots over 4 other coins that had nicks or scratches kind of the lesser of two evils. As long as they don't get darker it will be fine but I think they will eventually.  

Here is a shot of the Milk Lady, or maybe I will call it pollen falling off her branches 

[Jason Abshier]

36 minutes ago, J P Mashoke said:

Here is a shot of the Milk Lady, or maybe I will call it pollen falling off her branches

That will eventually turn darker over time it’s difficult for some collectors to hold raw or even graded modern silver coinage for a long time without it getting specks and milk spots on the coin , best thing to do is inspect your coins every month or so if they are spotting sell them off buy a better coin to replace it if you can. If I was holding it just for bullion I wouldn’t worry about it which I do I have a lot bullion I haven’t looked at for long time I’m sure it’s full of brown spots and milk spots after being locked up in the vault for 10 years. I use bullion to feed my classic coin collection when prices go up I dump some on the market only buy when prices go down a tad

 

we have to keep in mind the dealers usually only give you spot or tad lower for silver coins it is what it is so an ugly spotted coin is an ugly coin but it shouldn’t lose its silver melt value simply because it’s ugly 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Jason Abshier

[GoldFinger1969]

As a general rule, if a silver coin hasn't developed milk spots or "carbon spots" within 5-10 years of being encaspulated, it probably won't happen.

My understanding is that very few slabbed silver or gold coins from the 1980's or 1990's have developed problems years after the fact.

[RWB]

The chances of avoiding spots on coins increases if it is left in the original plastic holder.  No TPG publishes their clean room certification - if any have it - but I really doubt any would meet ISO 8. If you want to encapsulate coins, I suspect ISO 6 would be required - possibly ISO 5 if tests show contamination on real-world samples in the immediate handling/assembly/packaging areas.

Check here for clean room standards.

https://www.americancleanrooms.com/cleanroom-classifications/#iso

[Jason Abshier]

that’s an interesting read I always wondered about rooms where they grade coins , and where the coin is slabbed . Then the rooms also at the mint as well how clean is it there ? We also seen coins in original mint packages and capsules tarnish over time to be blamed on home environment of the collector who owned the coin , how can NCS conservation dip coins to clean off residue and tarnish ? but if a home collector does that the coin is deemed damaged or cleaned do I think dipping coins are bad ? No some coins do benefit dipping unless it’s done right I believe there are several Morgans and older walkers at one time were dipped to remove tarnish and possibly light spots 

[RFB90]

Just bought a 1899 O Morgan graded by NGC at MS 63--yet the reverse has three dark spots--not large but noticeable.  Would NGC grade a coin MS 63 that has spots such as the ones pictured?

Edited June 4, 2021 by RFB90

[VKurtB]

That slab is not old. I think 63 is correct WITH the dark spots. Without them, it'd be higher.

[VKurtB]

On 5/15/2021 at 1:17 PM, RWB said:

The chances of avoiding spots on coins increases if it is left in the original plastic holder.  No TPG publishes their clean room certification - if any have it - but I really doubt any would meet ISO 8. If you want to encapsulate coins, I suspect ISO 6 would be required - possibly ISO 5 if tests show contamination on real-world samples in the immediate handling/assembly/packaging areas.

Check here for clean room standards.

https://www.americancleanrooms.com/cleanroom-classifications/#iso

They encapsulate coins in meeting rooms (set aside for that purpose) at ANA conventions. If you're in an adjacent meeting room, you can HEAR it. And those are premium-priced "walkthrough" service highly valuable coins. I do NOT expect cleanroom ANYTHING from a TPGS and I am never disappointed. It's a crapshoot. Slabbing coins is HIGHLY overrated. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by VKurtB

[RFB90]

6 hours ago, VKurtB said:

That slab is not old. I think 63 is correct WITH the dark spots. Without them, it'd be higher.

Thanks I like the looks of the coin--even with the dark spots.

[James Zyskowski]

Bought this 6months ago and 3months ago dang spot off end of liberty finger appears not the best picture but I’ve looked at it from many angles and spot it is 😳

Edited June 7, 2021 by James Zyskowski

[RWB]

Contamination.

Each time a coin like this is exposed to the atmosphere it is also being exposed to contaminants. Sorry, but that's one of the risks of buying these things or having them "graded."

[VKurtB]

35 minutes ago, RWB said:

Contamination.

Each time a coin like this is exposed to the atmosphere it is also being exposed to contaminants. Sorry, but that's one of the risks of buying these things or having them "graded."

I still remember what the Mint said about these in 1986. Not intended to be collectibles. A pure bullion play. People don’t listen, right?

[Jason Abshier]

To this day I don’t own a graded silver eagle . But if one is buying 69s at cheap price no harm there but sooner or later they will change over the years , I can’t see myself buying 70 grade at high price then say 6-10 years later it starts getting freckles everywhere on coin and nobody willing to pay price of 70 grade anymore It’s now worth nothing but melt value , but to each their own do what they want . The proof version I can see people getting that one graded but regular business strikes nah ! 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Jason Abshier

[Jason Abshier]

2 hours ago, VKurtB said:

I still remember what the Mint said about these in 1986. Not intended to be collectibles. A pure bullion play. People don’t listen, right?

Only reason why I think we see so much large bulk loads of bullion , fantasy coins , colorized weird coins being graded these days is what else is there to keep grading companies busy and making money ? They can’t sit around waiting on dealers and collectors to send in 8-10 classic coins every few months that doesn’t make much money or keep business going 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Jason Abshier

[Jason Abshier]

On 5/15/2021 at 2:17 PM, RWB said:

The chances of avoiding spots on coins increases if it is left in the original plastic holder.  No TPG publishes their clean room certification - if any have it - but I really doubt any would meet ISO 8. If you want to encapsulate coins, I suspect ISO 6 would be required - possibly ISO 5 if tests show contamination on real-world samples in the immediate handling/assembly/packaging areas.

Check here for clean room standards.

https://www.americancleanrooms.com/cleanroom-classifications/#iso

I was once told that TPG also uses a blast of air before encapsulated coins , if that air line has tiny droplets of moisture in it , too late it landed on the coin . I know for a fact air lines build up moisture I’ve seen it myself if hold air line up to light watch it come out in sharp mist . I don’t know if the TPG is using air compressed air for blowing the coins before encapsulating ? Perhaps maybe you heard what they use or not ? 

[J P M]

5 hours ago, James Zyskowski said:

Bought this 6months ago and 3months ago dang spot off end of liberty finger appears not the best picture but I’ve looked at it from many angles and spot it is 😳

Looks like you have a couple of milk spots behind the flowers like mine has also. It is always a gamble not much you can do. It is graded so it will always sell higher than Bull 

[VKurtB]

34 minutes ago, J P Mashoke said:

Looks like you have a couple of milk spots behind the flowers like mine has also. It is always a gamble not much you can do. It is graded so it will always sell higher than Bull 

Don't be so sure. I've seen NGC and PCGS graded ASE's brought to dealers who won't even pay a dime above melt, mostly under it. Graded bullion is the biggest legal scam going.

[J P M]

2 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Don't be so sure. I've seen NGC and PCGS graded ASE's brought to dealers who won't even pay a dime above melt, mostly under it. Graded bullion is the biggest legal scam going.

Thanks VKurtB I will keep that in mind when I go shopping again. I got my 2017 S MS70 DCAM eagle and a 2007 W proof I may just settle for that  and see what happens down the road.

[VKurtB]

1 minute ago, J P Mashoke said:

Thanks VKurtB I will keep that in mind when I go shopping again. I got my 2017 S MS70 DCAM eagle and a 2007 W proof I may just settle for that  and see what happens down the road.

If you like 'em slabbed, like the 'look and feel', fine, do it. But don't expect to recover the cost.

[Alex in PA.]

Why anyone would put money into slabbed bullion I'll never know.  Any why people go nuts for American Silver Eagles?????   Silver - Now - $27.90 Kitco.

20 to 99 ASE .999 Fine Random Date = $40.32    Scruffy = $39.52

25 to 99 2021 Canadian Maple leaf .9999 Fine = $37.12

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Alex in PA.

[James Zyskowski]

Is the burnished ase considered bullion at 138,000 + mintage its the lowest of the burnished Plus sold way different than bulk. There is a W mint mark. You all are starting to confuse me??

Edited June 7, 2021 by James Zyskowski

[J P M]

There are some ASE that are worth more than others . It is a mater of taste in any coins that make the resale important. I know the PCGS and NGC prices on my proof and dcam are $100 to $120 or whatever someone will pay me for them LoL

Edited June 7, 2021 by J P Mashoke