CAC coins will now be recognized in the NGC registry with bonus points. 1 1

[Coinbuf]

Per the NGC release: 

Numismatic Guaranty Corporation® (NGC®) is pleased to announce that the NGC Registry will recognize and score coins evaluated by Certified Acceptance Corporation (CAC), starting May 19, 2021.

I certainly see the ideology in recognizing coins with the CAC acceptance in the registry, but I wonder if awarding bonus points will be a positive or negative result for the registry.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Coinbuf

[Lem E]

I think it will P*** some people off that have already built their collections without CAC coins and have a newer collector only buying CAC coins and bumping people out of their ranks. There are competitive people out there that are trying to squeeze every point out of their coins by using error coins and such. I think this will definitely change the game a little in registry set building.

[Walkerfan]

I don't mind the idea.

My coins will never be ALL CAC but I like getting bonus points for the ones that I DO have.

I don't think that I'll ever be #1, again anyway, in any category, and I'm fine with that. 

I care more about completion and showcasing.  

Surprised that they didn't choose to have a SEPARATE CAC Registry like they do ATS.  

Either way, I'm FINE with it.  

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Walkerfan

[physics-fan3.14]

The title of your thread is wrong... it says CAC coins will *not* be awarded bonus points. I think you meant they will *now* be awarded bonus points. Huge difference. 

[Coinbuf]

6 minutes ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

The title of your thread is wrong... it says CAC coins will *not* be awarded bonus points. I think you meant they will *now* be awarded bonus points. Huge difference. 

Thanks yes that was the intent and now fixed.

[Woods020]

I wonder who is paying who with this. It will definitely be a big business driver for CAC. Personally I’ll focus on CAC coins moving forward as I’ve been purchasing a decent amount lately. Luckily I’ve just submitted my paperwork for CAC submission privileges so that will come in handy. 

[Woods020]

I trust TPGs and CAC much more than my grading skills certainly, but I’ve looked at a few recently that I don’t see how they made the grade and they have a green bean. I’m sure it’s my skills but it makes me wonder sometimes. If you legitimately take the time to compare like coins with like grades and compare to auction results it’s mind boggling in the differences. 

[Coinbuf]

I'm not at all surprised a year or so back PCGS introduced CAC only sets on their registry so it seemed only a mater of time that NGC would find a way to get CAC involved too.  I think my only concern is the bonus points for green beaned coins, CAC approved coins are and have been receiving higher bids/prices in the coin market.  I'm afraid that this move could actually widen the gap that already exists.  Bonus points for gold beans makes perfect sense, but should be an interesting development to watch as all this unfolds.   I wonder if this was a step forward towards the rollout of the ANA registry platform.

[EdG_Ohio]

Sigh....more things to chase.

[Cat Bath]

And now my reaction...

Just deleted my set.

 

[Woods020]

I think it does fuel the fire of TPGs being inconsistent in their grading. I’m somewhat surprised PCGS/NGC want to embrace this as much as they are. Technically speaking if the grade was consistent and solid there would be no need for CAC. We know that’s almost impossible to do but the TPGS embracing this just highlights their grading inconsistency in some ways. 

[Coagman]

I really like the decision to award CAC approved coins more points.  Green stickered coins represent the mid to upper end of the grade spectrum, while gold stickered coins represent at least the next grade up.  An NGC or PCGS graded coin that has been reviewed by CAC, but didn’t receive a sticker can be accurately graded, just not in the upper end of the grade range.  The absence of a CAC sticker doesn’t mean that NGC or PCGS assigned the wrong grade. 

[Woods020]

14 minutes ago, Coagman said:

I really like the decision to award CAC approved coins more points.  Green stickered coins represent the mid to upper end of the grade spectrum, while gold stickered coins represent at least the next grade up.  An NGC or PCGS graded coin that has been reviewed by CAC, but didn’t receive a sticker can be accurately graded, just not in the upper end of the grade range.  The absence of a CAC sticker doesn’t mean that NGC or PCGS assigned the wrong grade. 

Agreed. But it does call attention to the variation in grades. Which I’m not saying isn’t inevitable or anyone is wrong, but when we get to a 70 point scale it would seem that brings consistency and specificity. CAC highlights that this isn’t necessarily the case and that meaningful deviation still exists. While this is inevitable and not a dig to any TPGs I’m simply pointing out it highlights this variation. So I’m a little surprised that the TPGs want to embrace it versus saying they are highly consistent and specific and that it isn’t needed. 
 

I do wonder if the two main TPGs may consider this in their grading going forward. Will this see a tightening of grading versus the grade creep everyone has stated is seemingly occurring. I can see where the two main TPGs want to compete to lead the pack with a higher percentage of their grades receiving a CAC vs the competitor. That would be conceivable. Neither will want to be the one that is less likely to get a bean. 

[Hoghead515]

I think if they are gonna do that they should have categories for it. Not really fair to the ones who worked so hard and spent their life's savings to get where they are at. Then someone with less valuable coins with stickers on them knock them out of their spot. To make it fair there outta be a category to compete without stickers. 

[numisport]

I think this levels the playing field after allowing PCGS coins in. There are some sets in the NGC Registry that are mostly (if not all) PCGS coins and yes I deleted my sets as well. Now I may put them back in.

[Coinbuf]

3 hours ago, Woods020 said:

I think it does fuel the fire of TPGs being inconsistent in their grading. I’m somewhat surprised PCGS/NGC want to embrace this as much as they are. Technically speaking if the grade was consistent and solid there would be no need for CAC. We know that’s almost impossible to do but the TPGS embracing this just highlights their grading inconsistency in some ways. 

To my thinking its sort of inevitable really, I'm not all that sure that either service wants to embrace CAC, but to ignore its status in the marketplace would be rather foolish.   CAC has been in operation now for quite some time and on the PCGS forums many members were wanting and requesting CAC sets for several years on their forum prior to PCGS creating their CAC sets.  So at some point both services saw the writing on the wall and felt that keeping customers happy (most anyway) is better than any slight possible negative perceptions of not including the CAC acceptance within the registry in some way.

I am not surprised to see this, I am just curious if including CAC in the registry here at NGC in this way will be positive or negative long term.  From the tiny sample size of this thread and the thread on the PCGS forum about this the overall sentiment has been more positive than negative, but far too small of a sample to make any determination from.

[gradeacoins]

Terrible idea imo. Why make collectors hassle submitting their coins to CAC for a registry, and doesn't this just basically say "hey we can't consistently grade and this third party knows better than us". Baffled at this decision ever getting approved.

Edited May 13, 2021 by gradeacoins

[Coinbuf]

1 hour ago, numisport said:

I think this levels the playing field after allowing PCGS coins in. There are some sets in the NGC Registry that are mostly (if not all) PCGS coins and yes I deleted my sets as well. Now I may put them back in.

Just out of curiosity could you expand on why/how you see this as leveling the playing field.

[Coinbuf]

1 minute ago, gradeacoins said:

Terrible idea imo

Interesting first post, welcome to the forums. 

[gradeacoins]

3 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

Interesting first post, welcome to the forums. 

Thanks! I edited my original post as I submitted it before I was done typing by accident. 

[Hoghead515]

I finally made it to 170 on my GW collection. I let you know what I get knocked down to after it comes into effect. Took alot of work to get down that far. There's several coins to that set. I've got a long ways to go to complete it. Spent many days working overtime and odd jobs to buy them. Spent many days listening to the wife yapping at me. Bout to go deaf in this one ear. She just don't understand I need these coins. When it goes into effect we can see what kind of an impact it's gonna make because I only have 1 CAC GW in that set. I got a couple on the way but as of now I need 64 more to finish it. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Hoghead515

[RWB]

Why did it take so long to recognize them? The little oval sticker is easy to see and should be recognizable from at least 10 meters away.

[Coinbuf]

@Hoghead515 Just a heads up, there was a nice Washington quarter someone is selling here on the sale forum.  I don't know if its still there or one that you might need but if you have not seen it maybe you will want to take a peek.

[Hoghead515]

3 hours ago, Coinbuf said:

@Hoghead515 Just a heads up, there was a nice Washington quarter someone is selling here on the sale forum.  I don't know if its still there or one that you might need but if you have not seen it maybe you will want to take a peek.

They must have sold it. I can't find it anywhere. 

[Henri Charriere]

4 hours ago, RWB said:

Why did it take so long to recognize them? The little oval sticker is easy to see and should be recognizable from at least 10 meters away.

Obviously, this raises the stakes for everyone involved and a little more cutthroat competition never hurt anyone. But the only way I am going to consider it is when grading oversight is taken to its natural conclusion: Not simply declining acceptance for CAC recognition if the coin fails to meet the grade, but taking it a step forward: "leveling the playing field" by ordering the TPGS to re-grade a coin according to established industry-wide standards.  And if that means a coin grading MS-67 is not deserving of that grade, so be it. Simply rejecting a coin for the grade that was assigned, in complete anonymity, is a meaningless gesture that does nothing to advance the interests of reputable dealers and confidence of serious collectors.

[Woods020]

1 hour ago, Hoghead515 said:

They must have sold it. I can't find it anywhere. 

HH,

It’s in the one that starts with “slabalicious” on the marketplace. About 1/2 to 2/3 down the page under new additions. Here is what he has. 
 

1948D NGC washington quarter ms 66 lightly toned $60

[Revenant]

I don't like this. But it doesn't matter to me.

What I collect (mostly NCLT, low premium world gold, and hyperinflation currency) doesn't really get stickered - there's no value in it. If others want to throw money away by starting to sticker these things let them. I'm not going to do it. I win two categories now mostly because I have no competition or no serious competition. I just don't play in that part of the pool. 

[RWB]

2 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

established industry-wide standards.

Ahhh, yes. Those nonexistent critters crossed between a Jabberwocky and a Scalawag.

[Henri Charriere]

[I can't wait to hear what our resident curmudgeon has to say about all this. I don't even think he believes in the religious rite known as encapsulation, questions grading of proof coins, apparently never saw a manifestation of toning he did not like and refuses to buy "blindly," on the basis of photos alone.]

[Coinbuf]

One part of this subject that has not been discussed is how many points are we talking about for each bean.  I did not see anything in the announcement to indicate how many points will be given for each bean.  If its only a few points say 5 and 10 respectively then this will mostly amount to nothing.   However if it turns out to be say 50 or more that could add up rather quickly.