What is the residual value of coins graded by NGC as cleaned? 1 1

[Liverpool 4 ever]

Is there a way to know the value of graded but cleaned non - US coins?  Have collected over the years few old 1880s and 1890s larger thaler size coins from Bulgaria which are graded cleaned UNC or AU by NGC?  Please let me know if you have any experience with older European 18 and 19 centuries coins. Thank you

[Conder101]

It's going to depend on how bad/harsh the cleaning was. A coin that was lightly dipped a long time ago is not going to be devalued nearly as much as one that say someone has scrubbed with baking soda or toothpaste.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Conder101

[Coinbuf]

Welcome to the forum, each coin must be assessed on its own merits and warts.  The type and severity of the cleaning, and the kind of coin and its desirability are all going to factor into what the market value will be.

[MarkFeld]

In addition to the degree of cleaning, other factors to consider are the value of the coin, if not cleaned, as well as the value of the coin in lower grades, if not cleaned. Often, a cleaned example in one state of preservation has a value that’s roughly equivalent to an uncleared one that’s a grade or two lower. For example, an uncirculated details, cleaned piece might have a value similar to an AU or XF that hasn’t been cleaned. 

[Liverpool 4 ever]

Conder, Coinbuf and Markfeld, frankly I did not expect such an overwhelming response and I am very grateful to you all.  As I see it, cleaned coins graded AU present the biggest valuation challenge as some of them are borderline AU while others display low AUN characteristics.  I think all of you have observed that.  My question is this , why is that NGC, PGCM when they grade cleaned coins do not describe them by marking them AU - details, AU details and AU+ details?  Or it is too much to expect from the grading services?  Thank you  

[MarkFeld]

1 hour ago, Liverpool 4 ever said:

Conder, Coinbuf and Markfeld, frankly I did not expect such an overwhelming response and I am very grateful to you all.  As I see it, cleaned coins graded AU present the biggest valuation challenge as some of them are borderline AU while others display low AUN characteristics.  I think all of you have observed that.  My question is this , why is that NGC, PGCM when they grade cleaned coins do not describe them by marking them AU - details, AU details and AU+ details?  Or it is too much to expect from the grading services?  Thank you  

In answer to your questions, I can’t speak for the grading companies, but here are my thoughts...

When a coin has a problem such as cleaning, polishing, severe scratches, etc. that problem is far more significant than whether, in terms of wear, a coin would otherwise grade AU50, 53, 55 or 58. Likewise, for example, XF details grade coins aren’t classified as XF45 vs. XF40 details either.
 

ANACS does specify specific numerical grades, even for details grade coins, however.

[Liverpool 4 ever]

The above question was with regard of the quality of details. In a similar fashion, can NGC and PCGC not include a description of the cleaning itself, for example, lightly cleaned in the case of borderline cleaned coins? Thanks 

[Liverpool 4 ever]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool 4 ever said:

The above question was with regard of the quality of details. In a similar fashion, can NGC and PCGC not include a description of the cleaning itself, for example, lightly cleaned in the case of borderline cleaned coins? Thanks 

Markfeld, thank you for the thorough explanation. But how would you describe a borderline AU cleaned coin that has  AU+ details characteristics and is lightly cleaned?  Thanks  

[MarkFeld]

1 hour ago, Liverpool 4 ever said:

Markfeld, thank you for the thorough explanation. But how would you describe a borderline AU cleaned coin that has  AU+ details characteristics and is lightly cleaned?  Thanks  

“Lightly cleaned” can mean different things to different people. A great many lightly cleaned (and some, more than lightly cleaned) coins are in straight grade holders. If, in my opinion, an AU+ coin has been lightly enough cleaned to still merit a straight grade, I’d grade it AU50, 53 or 55, but not 58. If, on the other hand, I feel that the cleaning is severe enough to warrant a details grade, I’d grade it AU details cleaned (or AU details, harshly cleaned).

As I’ve posted several times on various forums over the years - often, the decision whether to award a straight vs, a details grade can be just as difficult and subjective as the decision regarding what numerical grade to assign to a straight grade coin.

Edited April 23, 2021 by MarkFeld

[Liverpool 4 ever]

MarkFeld, awesome explanation. Much obliged, Sir! 

[Just Bob]

Welcome to the forum. 

Good thread! Very informative answers.

[Alex in PA.]

22 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

A great many lightly cleaned (and some, more than lightly cleaned) coins are in straight grade holders.

I just purchased an 1861 Seated Liberty 1/2 Dollar, NGC AU 58, that looks very 'bright' to me.  Cleaned? Dipped?  Your thoughts on this  Thanks very much.

 

 

[MarkFeld]

2 hours ago, Alex in PA. said:

I just purchased an 1861 Seated Liberty 1/2 Dollar, NGC AU 58, that looks very 'bright' to me.  Cleaned? Dipped?  Your thoughts on this  Thanks very much.

 

 

I’m confident that it’s been dipped. Beyond that, I can’t tell.

[Alex in PA.]

8 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

I’m confident that it’s been dipped.

My suspicions also.  Perhaps it is also the picture that causes the coin to look 'smooth'.  Thanks very much for your input.