Has any key date coins seen a significant rise in price lately? 1 1

[numisport]

1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:

[As far as I am concerned, collectors did not leave the hobby.  Collections could be compiled from change. Proof sets, when I came in, were $2.10.  Silver and war-time nickels, Wheaties, et al., the U.S. Mint and their customers left the hobby.  Seeing an opportunity, investors moved in -- and the rest, TPGS, the internet, shoe salesmen with not enough shoes to put their money in -- is history.  I did not leave the hobby!  The hobby left me, and many other well-meaning people, particularly those attemtping to place an order through the Mint, were abandoned and left high and dry.  (And if none of this makes sense to you, gentle reader, you simply aren't old enough to remember the good old days.)

I am old enough to remember trying to get nice Ikes back in the 80's. I was told by my dealer friend that I would have to get them from mint sets. Well I went through a few and could not even find an MS 64 quality coin ! Then the TPG's started grading them and I bought a few MS 66's for a little money. So in one way I can applaud them for my purchases. In other ways you are right on the money. U.S Mint customers should be disgusted by the way sales of ASE scarcities have been offered.

[GoldFinger1969]

2 hours ago, numisport said:

Then the TPG's started grading them and I bought a few MS 66's for a little money. So in one way I can applaud them for my purchases. 

About how much did MS66 Ikes cost back then ?  What do they cost today ?

[GoldFinger1969]

Jeff Garrett seems to think the market is closer to red-hot rather than firm: 

https://coinweek.com/us-coins/jeff-garrett-coin-markets-on-the-move/

[Alex in PA.]

19 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

I gave him a dollar

I hope he didn't spend it all in one place!    

[Alex in PA.]

19 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Large Denomination bills ($500 and $1,000) in medium-to-lower grade have seen a big rise in the last 6-9 monts

If they aren't careful they will price themselves out of business for a while until it gets back to affordable.  

[Henri Charriere]

4 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Jeff Garrett seems to think the market is closer to red-hot rather than firm: 

https://coinweek.com/us-coins/jeff-garrett-coin-markets-on-the-move/

This is true.  He claims, near hysterically, that there is insufficient dealer supply to saisfy consumer demand.  But he is one of the more influential people [in what has become an investor-motivated market] so I guess it would be best to listen to his prognostications than one would Punxsutawney Phil.

[Henri Charriere]

5 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

If they aren't careful they will price themselves out of business for a while until it gets back to affordable.  

In the Pleistocene era I had a few of these, priced ridiculously low, but the problem with them has always been the same.  Take the popular '34 series before grading them came into mode, they just sat there gaining zero interest, especially if they were in EPPQ, like the silver certificates then still in circulation. I am told one of the gambling casinos had a thousand of those Cleveland notes in a showcase and that made as good an attraction for visitors before the Rat Pack and Siegfried and Roy came along.

[comicdonna]

I feel that given the rate of increase in price of many other collectibles, more people will turn to investing in coins.  At current prices, I will not be purchasing 1 comic.  I will be more inclined to buy coins.  I see this happening with others, that are getting priced out of of their primary collectible.  

[Alex in PA.]

3 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

there is insufficient dealer supply to saisfy consumer demand. 

As the world population increases it only stands to reason that collectors, of all sorts and forms, will increase.  This is referred to as 'Population Growth vs Decline" by the US Gov.

My town never changes population

Every time a girl gets pregnant, a guy leaves town.      

[World Colonial]

On 4/27/2021 at 7:18 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

This is true.  He claims, near hysterically, that there is insufficient dealer supply to saisfy consumer demand.  But he is one of the more influential people [in what has become an investor-motivated market] so I guess it would be best to listen to his prognostications than one would Punxsutawney Phil.

I have read Garrett's Coin Week articles and he is definitely a promoter.  It's what I would expect from someone like him but he is not what I would describe as an impartial observer.  

[Henri Charriere]

3 hours ago, World Colonial said:

I have read Garrett's Coin Week articles and he is definitely a promoter.  It's what I would expect from someone like him but he is not what I would describe as an impartial observer.  

Come to think of it, when's the last time you've read a Doomsday prognosis from one of these movers and shakers?  As always, you're way ahead of the curve.  That's why when you talk, people listen. And continue to listen whether they are with you or not.  (You exude a certain confidence and forthrightness viewers/members/lurkers and the occasional spectator, find attractive.)

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/27/2021 at 7:13 AM, Alex in PA. said:

If they aren't careful they will price themselves out of business for a while until it gets back to affordable.  

Funny thing is that you are paying maybe $750 for something with a floor of $500.  So it's not an outrageous price.

Buy a high-grade Mint State one for $3,000 (6x face) and you have alot more downside. 

 

[GoldFinger1969]

4 hours ago, World Colonial said:

I have read Garrett's Coin Week articles and he is definitely a promoter.  It's what I would expect from someone like him but he is not what I would describe as an impartial observer.  

Noted.....but I think he is giving enough anectdotal information but with specifics that you can see it being confirmed by others.  So while we can quibble with the EXTENT of his bullishness, I think the general direction is correct.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/28/2021 at 4:19 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Come to think of it, when's the last time you've read a Doomsday prognosis from one of these movers and shakers?  As always, you're way ahead of the curve.  That's why when you talk, people listen. And continue to listen whether they are with you or not.  (You exude a certain confidence and forthrightness viewers/members/lurkers and the occasional spectator, find attractive.)

Believe it or not, I do see "buyer beware" articles that are bearish or even very bearish going back to the 1989-90 Bubble.

And some "the bottom is in" articles after coins had fallen 75-85%....but as it turned out they languished for another 10-15 years even if the major decline was over.

Edited May 1, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

38 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Come to think of it, when's the last time you've read a Doomsday prognosis from one of these movers and shakers?  As always, you're way ahead of the curve.  That's why when you talk, people listen. And continue to listen whether they are with you or not.  (You exude a certain confidence and forthrightness viewers/members/lurkers and the occasional spectator, find attractive.)

My suspicion is that a lot of readers don't like my "negative" financial opinions.

I don't consider myself a "doomsday" predictor.  I consider it reality.  With coins, I don't expect coin dealers or a source like Coin Week to profile writers who are write about lower prices.

What I find annoying though is repeated exaggeration and some of it ridiculously so.  In a recent Coin Week article, another firm describes a number of Morgan dollars as "rare" when the truth is that every single one is actually extremely common since these weren't even the key dates.  The only actually rare Morgan dollars are branch mint proofs.  Every other is "rare" only in some arbitrary quality or as a die variety.

Garret is also one who regularly writes about "rare" coins when the truth is many are actually practically as common as dirt, even in high grades.

[World Colonial]

6 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Noted.....but I think he is giving enough anectdotal information but with specifics that you can see it being confirmed by others.  So while we can quibble with the EXTENT of his bullishness, I think the general direction is correct.

I was actually referring to his articles generally.  I have not read this one specifically.  I'm not disputing that the trend isn't improving.

[numisport]

On 4/26/2021 at 2:56 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

About how much did MS66 Ikes cost back then ?  What do they cost today ?

Some MS 66 coins can be had for 200 bucks or so. 1972 Philly of any type is expensive but I purchased an MS 64 T2 that is pretty nice. What I think is cool about these Ikes is the original toning. Here's an MS 66 that I paid up a little for the toning.

As I remember back then the coins with few marks that might warrant an MS 66 grade were only secured by chance rather than by request. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by numisport

[GoldFinger1969]

Carson City Double Eagles......these are very expensive DE's but alot of people want one for the allure of the Old West.  I've seen articles talking about how folks are buying them in the EF and AU grades, staying away from high-AU or the few Mint State coins where prices skyrocket.

Prices have been strong since Covid, rising about 30% in the lower grades, matching or exceeding price rises in the higher grades.  We've seen this phenomoenon before -- lower graded bills/coins besting higher-graded stuff because people who want to own the coin don't have the $$$ for the more expensive coins and just grab from the lower tiers.

Similar buying pattern across other Type 1 and Type 2 Liberty DEs.....but not as much for the Type 3's which are plentiful from the late 1890's through 1907.

Edited May 1, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[Henri Charriere]

1 hour ago, numisport said:

A teller at a local bank on the upper East Side of Manhattan, who knows me only because I am her only customer who asks for rolled halves and two-dollar bills, told she had dollars, "the big ones".

Knowing she couldn't possibly be referring to the Sacajaweas and Liberties, I dismissed the thought.

Yet another time, the bank was out of both quarters and halves but someone mentioned those "large" dollars again.  It turns out they were Eisenhowers and asked me if I were interested.  I do like heavy coins so said, Sure, how many have you got?

They had twelve rolls, wrapped in makeshift cellophane and judging by the exposed ends, all were bicentennials.

Looking at your toned specimen, and your reference to their being worth something, I am inclined to take a look.  One thing I am certain of is the bank -- no bank -- wants them back, whether they are toned, come in varieties, or were stuck on the wrong planchet.  They're all stacked by my TV, I see them every day, but had no idea any had any value though I am fairly certain they are all uncirculated and were hoarded perhaps in the hopes their novelty would one day make them worth more than face.  Your toned Ike is quite nice!

Edited May 1, 2021 by Quintus Arrius
A multiplicity of typos.

[numisport]

38 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

A teller at a local bank on the upper East Side of Manhattan, who knows me only because I am her only customer who asks for rolled halves and two-dollar bills, told she had dollars, "the big ones".

Knowing she couldn't possibly be referring to the Sacajaweas and Liberties, I dismissed the thought.

Yet another time, the bank was out of both quarters and halves but someone mentioned those "large" dollars again.  It turns out they were Eisenhowers and asked me if I were interested.  I do like heavy coins so said, Sure, how many have you got?

They had twelve rolls, wrapped in makeshift cellophane and judging by the exposed ends, all were bicentennials.

Looking at your toned specimen, and your reference to their being worth something, I am inclined to take a look.  One thing I am certain of is the bank -- no bank -- wants them back, whether they are toned, come in varieties, or were stuck on the wrong planchet.  They're all stacked by my TV, I see them every day, but had no idea any had any value though I am fairly certain they are all uncirculated and were hoarded perhaps in the hopes their novelty would one day make them worth more than face.  Your toned Ike is quite nice!

Here's my 76-D T2 nicely toned as well. As you can see these 66s' do have a few contact marks (none heavy though) and consistent with Morgan and Peace dollars in gem + grades. Sorry no intent to derail this thread 

Edited May 1, 2021 by numisport

[World Colonial]

41 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Carson City Double Eagles......these are very expensive DE's but alot of people want one for the allure of the Old West.  I've seen articles talking about how folks are buying them in the EF and AU grades, staying away from high-AU or the few Mint State coins where prices skyrocket.

Prices have been strong since Covid, rising about 30% in the lower grades, matching or exceeding price rises in the higher grades.  We've seen this phenomoenon before -- lower graded bills/coins besting higher-graded stuff because people who want to own the coin don't have the $$$ for the more expensive coins and just grab from the lower tiers.

I don't think it is just the price but the lack of supply.  For most US coinage, I consider the higher and highest grade coins to be inferior values (sometimes financially but definitely as a collectible) to slightly or even noticeably lower quality coins.  However, this isn't true for the US coinage with the highest preference.

Years ago, I recall a similar trend from the PCGS archives for Liberty Seated CC mint coinage.  I did not verify the data though.  I wouldn't describe most of these coins as rare, but it's not common either and there aren't enough better examples for those who want to buy it.

Edited May 1, 2021 by World Colonial

[GoldFinger1969]

30 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

I don't think it is just the price but the lack of supply. 

Yup, exactly.....folks can pay $3,000 - $8,000 for a CC DE but not $30,000 or more.  So they ante up and buy the former.  And there just aren't enough coins to go around as there are more buyers of a $5,000 coin than a $50,000 coin.

We saw similar price movements and buying habits with the 1857-S SS Central America coins.

30 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

Years ago, I recall a similar trend from the PCGS archives for Liberty Seated CC mint coinage.  I did not verify the data though.  I wouldn't describe most of these coins as rare, but it's not common either and there aren't enough better examples for those who want to buy it.

Good info, thanks ! 

Edited May 1, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

2 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

We saw similar price movements and buying habits with the 1857-S SS Central America coins.

Not sure what grades you are referring to for CC DE but for the Liberty Seated coinage, I'm referring all the way down to G-4.  Gold coinage is almost never below fine and usually noticeably better.  What I am describing is that G and VG grades outperformed all of the highest grades.

With 57-S DE, this became a widely available coin in better grades (lower MS) with the shipwreck discovery.  It's also one of the few (and maybe only) Type 1 DE available in better grades with any noticeable supply.

[Henri Charriere]

(Good point... Ship wrecks matter.)

[GoldFinger1969]

6 hours ago, World Colonial said:

Not sure what grades you are referring to for CC DE but for the Liberty Seated coinage, I'm referring all the way down to G-4.  Gold coinage is almost never below fine and usually noticeably better.  What I am describing is that G and VG grades outperformed all of the highest grades.

Gotcha....and you're right, I wasn't looking that far down the Sheldon Scale. 

And good point on gold coins rarely being below Fine, probably Extra Fine (40's) in fact....they just don't circulate that much to get that amount of wear and most just have bag marks from being moved around in bags.

[GoldFinger1969]

Not a key date, but you can see that the price of the National Park Foundation "coins" have risen 50-100% in the last few months or year or so as a cheaper alternative to the Real Thing (Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles).

1 ounce silver coins based on ASG's patterns that sold for $50-$80 are now going for $125-$175.  Gold coins are selling in the low-$2K range and some of the other ones I see asks for over $3,000. 

A 5-oz. Winged Liberty went for over $300 a few weeks ago when other 5-ounce silvers are usually around $175 - $250, tops.