Has any key date coins seen a significant rise in price lately? 1 1

[comicdonna]

I ask because many other collectibles have skyrocketed in price during the last 3 months.  Many key comics that were worth 5 to 10K 3 months ago are now worth 10 to 20K or more now.  The same has been happening with many other collectibles.  How is the coin market these days?   Any substantial gain in value for the more desirable coins?

[EdG_Ohio]

I don't have a expansive collection but while updating my Excel file on prices I noticed my 2006 W EAGLE BURNISHED GOLD EAGLE   went from $2300 on 4.8.21 to $2775 on 4.14.21. Many of my $100-$500 have for the most part have not changed but this is based on NGC and PCGS data that always isn't current market value.
I never base prices on feebay.

[GoldFinger1969]

4 hours ago, comicdonna said:

How is the coin market these days?   Any substantial gain in value for the more desirable coins?

No skyrocketing, but between last year's rise in gold/silver and lots of new bidders, prices have generally been strong.  I was hoping to be able to buy an MCMVII High Relief AU58 for about $10,000 later this year but the price has risen and the market moved against me.

BIG increase in Saint-Gaudens Ultra High Relief prices.  Just hit $4 MM for a coin, close to $3 MM in February.  Prices were in the 2's a few years ago.

[World Colonial]

I don't know much about comic pricing but infer that any key comics which have increased noticeably are more prominent than most (supposed) key date (mostly US) coins.  These comics have a (much) higher cultural appeal than any coin too, most of which have none.

This is my concurrent inference behind the reported recent price for the Jordan GM-10 rookie card of 700K where I understand the population count is already 316.  No duplicates for sure so the price can't be based upon any supposed rarity.

For very common key date US coinage (all of the most widely collected series) to increase 100%+ per the OP, the general coin price level would almost certainly have to increase noticeably with it.  Anything else would make the coins even more uncompetitive since it isn't remotely scarce or interesting enough.

[GoldFinger1969]

You have lots of people with big $$$ from tech and social media.  Many are in their 20's and 30's and 40's....buying stuff like this at big prices is nothing as they are reliving their youths.  Look at the NFT craze. 

Look at the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle...I think it was $50,000 in mint condition when I was active in the early-1990's....it flatlined or dropped after the Bubble burst.....I believe it was $150,000 in the 2000's....and today it's what, $5 MM for one of the best ones ?  Unreal........

[Coinbuf]

From what I have observed key dates have not moved more or higher than the overall coin market, the exception to this is for any toned example the the market deems better than most.  Currently toned coins, even those that I would consider rather blah toning; has been the hottest part of the market.   If you have a key date coin with nice toning that is where the big jumps are seen, however other than some outliers and gold the coin market has not seen the same leap in prices that other collectables have over the last year or two.  Prices have been stronger than pre pandemic for the top of the market and toned material while the lower end stuff and average material has moved up at a slower rate if at all.

[GoldFinger1969]

15 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

From what I have observed key dates have not moved more or higher than the overall coin market, the exception to this is for any toned example the the market deems better than most.  Currently toned coins, even those that I would consider rather blah toning; has been the hottest part of the market.   If you have a key date coin with nice toning that is where the big jumps are seen, however other than some outliers and gold the coin market has not seen the same leap in prices that other collectables have over the last year or two.  Prices have been stronger than pre pandemic for the top of the market and toned material while the lower end stuff and average material has moved up at a slower rate if at all.

All the dealers say business has been great since March 2020....not just OK.... GREAT ...auction sites say activity/registrations/sales great, too.....people with time on their hand and some $$$ got back into coins......happened to me a few times in the past....this time, you had the ease of online bidding besides Ebay (HA, GC, etc.).

Key dates tend to be more expensive, right ?  Then I would think that the people buying those are going to be the least-affected by Covid-19.

Edited April 22, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

8 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Key dates tend to be more expensive, right ?  

Yes, that's usually all that makes most key dates a key date for the most widely collected series now and recently.  It's one of the most widely misused terms in US collecting along with "scarce" and "rare".

On the PCGS forum, I've seen posters claim 2019 and 2020 W quarters are "key dates".  I suppose it is if collecting strictly out of circulation as predominated in the 60's but it still renders the concept meaningless where most series must be bought at a premium to FV.

[Henri Charriere]

13 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

BIG increase in Saint-Gaudens Ultra High Relief prices.  Just hit $4 MM for a coin, close to $3 MM in February.  Prices were in the 2's a few years ago.

[Here I am thinking MM was a medical acronym meaning, "myeloid metaplasia middle menengeal multiple myeloma," when it finally dawned on me it couldn't be that, or two thousand in Roman numerals. GF, I am ashamed to say, I Iooked around first to make sure no one was watching, Googled it, and it all fell into place. I guess saying, a mil just doesn't have the cachet of saying your S-G UHR is worth a couple of Marilyn Monroes. 😉

[GoldFinger1969]

M = 1,000 and MM is 1000x1000 or 1 million.  

[comicdonna]

Thanks for the input, everyone.  

[GoldFinger1969]

1 hour ago, comicdonna said:

Thanks for the input, everyone.  

Prices haven't SKYROCKETED as you asked in your opening post....but they've risen and there are bids underneath, as we say in the trade.

When every single acution house and virtually all dealers say business is good/great/spectacular.....you know it has to be.  And when you also throw in the fact that they couldn't/didn't travel that is a HUGE increase to the bottom line.

I'm not an expert on LCS or dealer economics, but if you figure you go to 2 or 3 big national coin shows....and maybe a few other local ones.....you have to figure you save a few hundred on the latter and a few thousand on the former.  That now goes straight to the bottom line.

For the bigger shops, this is a huge windfall.  Heritage must have brought 15-20 people to FUN 2020.  They had TONS of books and inventory they brought.....flew or drove from Texas to Florida.....hotel and food for their employees for 4-5 nights/days.   They must have saved 6-figures from that show and others like it.

[Henri Charriere]

Check back with us in two months and one of our members will regale you with how a coin, so key it's unique, reached eight figures in furious bidding the likes of which have not been seen in generations.

I don't know about key dates but Morgans seem to be really hot right now.  The demand for silver is growing and silver stocks appear limited.  (I only recently became aware a nice but not particularly rare French 20-franc gold rooster sold for over $2,000.  I am unaware of any other that approached and exceeded that amount at auction.)

It's going to be one very long hot summer, metal-wise.

[World Colonial]

2 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Prices haven't SKYROCKETED as you asked in your opening post....but they've risen and there are bids underneath, as we say in the trade.

When every single acution house and virtually all dealers say business is good/great/spectacular.....you know it has to be.  And when you also throw in the fact that they couldn't/didn't travel that is a HUGE increase to the bottom line.

I'm not an expert on LCS or dealer economics, but if you figure you go to 2 or 3 big national coin shows....and maybe a few other local ones.....you have to figure you save a few hundred on the latter and a few thousand on the former.  That now goes straight to the bottom line.

For the bigger shops, this is a huge windfall.  Heritage must have brought 15-20 people to FUN 2020.  They had TONS of books and inventory they brought.....flew or drove from Texas to Florida.....hotel and food for their employees for 4-5 nights/days.   They must have saved 6-figures from that show and others like it.

I think the problem with what you describe for a dealer is on the buying side, but this is an inference only.   It also might be a problem for auction firms but this is more of an inference.

For what I collect, there isn't and never was much available to buy but the supply of coins form these countries seems to be noticeably lower, except for overpriced mostly junk on eBay.  Heritage used to have a much better selection of Latin coinage but it's substantially dried up.  Look at the May sale (forgot the sponsor offhand) if you have interest.

For far more widely collected coinage, don't know.  Heritage still has a good selection of British but haven't compared to previous.  For US material, most of it is so common it's never going to be a problem for most collectors to buy but dealers might have more difficulty finding better quality coins for inventory and there could be segments or series where this is also true generically.

[gmarguli]

Prices are rising. No doubt about it. It's happening with all collectibles and investment class assets. Even stamps, where the average collector is around 113 years old and the hobby long thought dead, is hot.

Investors are desperately seeking out places to put their money to use. There are no traditional place to invest your money right now. US consumers have $3+ TRILLION of cash waiting to be spent. Sadly, the average American will spend this money as things get back to normal rather than save it. 

Increases in collectible prices is likely to continue for a while. 

[numisport]

Aside from key dates, I'm not able to win any coins I want at auction (at reasonable prices). While I am only looking for NGC CAC coins currently, I end up paying way more than price guide for these. So if I'm up against dealers in some instances then the price guides should eventually reflect increases, but they do not it seems. Collector coins in my price range often show prices dropping, yet I have to pay more to own them. Of course the explanation for this is painfully obvious to me and explains why collectors leave the hobby.

[dollarfan]

even crappy looking 1921 Peace dollars are selling way over book.  high grade "nice" examples are selling so high that the price guides have moved up on them substantially   take a peak at NGC/PCGS price guide history

[MarkFeld]

On 4/22/2021 at 12:58 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

No skyrocketing, but between last year's rise in gold/silver and lots of new bidders, prices have generally been strong.  I was hoping to be able to buy an MCMVII High Relief AU58 for about $10,000 later this year but the price has risen and the market moved against me.

BIG increase in Saint-Gaudens Ultra High Relief prices.  Just hit $4 MM for a coin, close to $3 MM in February.  Prices were in the 2's a few years ago.

For the following reasons, I think your post gives the wrong impression.

it was just a two coin sample size.

The one that sold in February was graded by NGC and brought $3.6 million (not really “close” to $3.0 million).

The more recent, privately sold one was a PCGS/CAC example.

And not surprisingly, I think it had been several years since one had sold.

 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/24/2021 at 3:32 PM, MarkFeld said:

For the following reasons, I think your post gives the wrong impression.  it was just a two coin sample size.  The one that sold in February was graded by NGC and brought $3.6 million (not really “close” to $3.0 million). The more recent, privately sold one was a PCGS/CAC example. And not surprisingly, I think it had been several years since one had sold.

Yes, Mark, I got it confused with an older/earlier sale that went for just under $3 MM.  The February coin was the PR68 that traces to the Norweb's.  Beautiful coin.  And you're right about the other one and how the sales are few and far between -- but the price IS rising, even if direct comps quality-wise to earlier sales can be debated. 

Just seems like the price is rising for trophy assets of any kind (coins, comics, cards, art, whatever) as I am sure all the folks at HA can attest. 

Just curious, maybe you can answer this based on your past experience as a grader....when someone submits a super-expensive coin (or other item) like a UHR for grading (1st time or a re-grading)...do they bring it in personally or through a designated rep to the offices or do they risk insured overnight ?  Or do they bring it to a big show like FUN or Long Beach so they are not separated from the coin ?  Can't believe people would send 6-figure or higher coins through the mails or with a dealer's regular stash, but wanted to ask and see how it was done.

Edited April 26, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[MarkFeld]

6 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Yes, Mark, I got it confused with an older/earlier sale that went for just under $3 MM.  The February coin was the PR68 that traces to the Norweb's.  Beautiful coin.  And you're right about the other one and how the sales are few and far between -- but the price IS rising, even if direct comps quality-wise to earlier sales can be debated. 

Just seems like the price is rising for trophy assets of any kind (coins, comics, cards, art, whatever) as I am sure all the folks at HA can attest. 

Just curious, maybe you can answer this based on your past experience as a grader....when someone submits a super-expensive coin (or other item) like a UHR for grading (1st time or a re-grading)...do they bring it in personally or through a designated rep to the offices or do they risk insured overnight ?  Or do they bring it to a big show like FUN or Long Beach so they are not separated from the coin ?  Can't believe people would send 6-figure or higher coins through the mails or with a dealer's regular stash, but wanted to ask and see how it was done.

All of those. We pick up some collections and others are either shipped or delivered to our offices or to us at shows.

[Henri Charriere]

Just a little joke...

When the Partrick Collection was authenticated and subsequently sold, an armed [moonlighting] thoroughly vetted security guard accompanied a designated carrier for the ride.

The boarding pass flight attendant recognized his name and discreetly inquired why a person with world renowned.fame such as he chose to fly second-class.

His answer:  because there was no third-class.

[Apologies to Just Bob if it is too early in the morning for all this.]

[GoldFinger1969]

With the thefts at FedX and USPS (I'm sure they are there with UPS even though I can't recall reading about any), I'd be super-wary sending any irreplaceable or even very expensive coin through the mails.  There are so many new and PT people working for these companies as volumes have surged since Covid.

With the internet, these PT'ers and newbies have checked addresses and know where stuff is going and being sent.  You wouldn't have that information 20 or more years ago.

[Alex in PA.]

4 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

with UPS even though I can't recall reading about any

Try ATS; saw some complaints the other day.

Most of us are sensible to understand that when there is a Pandemic raging things don't always work out OUR way.  I have read a great amount of these "Stolen Coins" comments and the majority of them always are followed by a sub title 'Lost/Stolen Coins" or "Missing or Stolen Coins".  A great majority of the time we never read a 'Final Conclusion' of these claims.  It is MY OPINION, and only my opinion, that a good portion of these so called thefts were nothing more than delayed in transit and the suffering complainer is blowing off steam.  The damage false claims does to the USPS, UPS or FedEx is unwarranted and serves no purpose.  Those agencies were staffed by humans some of who came down with the virus which caused delays in the processing of our mail.  

[zadok]

23 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

With the thefts at FedX and USPS (I'm sure they are there with UPS even though I can't recall reading about any), I'd be super-wary sending any irreplaceable or even very expensive coin through the mails.  There are so many new and PT people working for these companies as volumes have surged since Covid.

With the internet, these PT'ers and newbies have checked addresses and know where stuff is going and being sent.  You wouldn't have that information 20 or more years ago.

there u go again perpetuating false rumors again that r not substantiated , u just cant leave that bone alone....

[GoldFinger1969]

17 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

Try ATS; saw some complaints the other day.

Most of us are sensible to understand that when there is a Pandemic raging things don't always work out OUR way.  I have read a great amount of these "Stolen Coins" comments and the majority of them always are followed by a sub title 'Lost/Stolen Coins" or "Missing or Stolen Coins".  A great majority of the time we never read a 'Final Conclusion' of these claims.  It is MY OPINION, and only my opinion, that a good portion of these so called thefts were nothing more than delayed in transit and the suffering complainer is blowing off steam.  The damage false claims does to the USPS, UPS or FedEx is unwarranted and serves no purpose.  Those agencies were staffed by humans some of who came down with the virus which caused delays in the processing of our mail.  

You are right about long delays, Alex, and some of them may have led to too-early complaints of stolen coins.  But as we have seen from another thread here (and multiple ones elswhere), other stuff has been taken and packages/envelopes re-sealed.... and some packages have literally been shredded open and left for dead. 

No ambiguity or delays involved there. 

If something hasn't reached its destination within 2-3 weeks, unless its a very heavy package, something is amiss.  Also, with tracking numbers and priority shipping (and most of these are not being sent Regular Mail) you should know where these packages are every step of the way.  As I understand it, when an item is being stolen, it stops on the TRACKING chain and just sits at that destination since it never advances.

Sometimes packages are re-sealed and continue on their way (sans valuable coin/coins) and other times the package is openened, the contents taken, and the packaging trashed and thrown out.

[GoldFinger1969]

1 hour ago, zadok said:

there u go again perpetuating false rumors again that r not substantiated , u just cant leave that bone alone....

Excuse me ?  Lots of threads on forums about lost packages.  We have some here -- individuals stating items were lost/stolen.  Not saying it is at epidemic levels but plenty of stories about packages never arriving either being sent to TPGs or sent from them...and also some more active sellers/buyers, too.

Edited April 26, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[Henri Charriere]

On 4/24/2021 at 10:17 AM, numisport said:

 Collector coins in my price range often show prices dropping, yet I have to pay more to own them. Of course the explanation for this is painfully obvious to me and explains why collectors leave the hobby.

[As far as I am concerned, collectors did not leave the hobby.  Collections could be compiled from change. Proof sets, when I came in, were $2.10.  Silver and war-time nickels, Wheaties, et al., the U.S. Mint abandoned the hobby.  Seeing an opportunity, investors moved in and the rest --TPGS, the internet, shoe salesmen with not enough shoes to put their money in -- is history.  I did not leave the hobby!  The hobby left me, and many other well-meaning people, particularly those attemtping to place an order through the Mint, were abandoned and left high and dry.  (And if none of this makes sense to you, gentle reader, you simply aren't old enough to remember the good old days.)

Edited April 26, 2021 by Quintus Arrius
Change in wording.

[Alex in PA.]

22 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

but plenty of stories about packages

I really like, and agree with, most of what you say.  I am on here, CT, and CU and I don't see a multitude of "stolen' coins" comments that are ever followed up.  I've been a victim of FedEx stupidity.  I was to receive a valuable ($1,000.00+) item.  It showed as 'Received'. but wasn't.  FedEx was no help and couldn't care less.  I got a refund from the Shipper who labeled it 'Stolen in Transit'.  One month later a Property Owner of a vacant building quit away from me showed up with this large box addressed to me.  FedEx left it at the door of a vacant apartment.  Also, I think people who ship collectible  coins in a 'Bubble Wrap' envelop[e are just plain asking for it.  But, never the less, I have shipped coins via the USPS for near 50 years now and never had one lost, stolen or missing.  If you would have seen what I shipped to Maine last year you would have fainted.   

Edited April 26, 2021 by Alex in PA.
Spelling again

[Henri Charriere]

50 minutes ago, zadok said:

there u go again perpetuating false rumors again that r not substantiated , u just cant leave that bone alone....

[I guess this is not a good time to say I ordered (you know what) from Paris on Monday last week, was notified it was shipped Tuesday (the following day) with a note to expect delivery in 7 - 10 days, and as I was leaving the elevator on Thursday afternoon (same week) was met by a departing FedEx man to whom I jokingly asked, "You weren't at #206, were you?" And to my shock, said "Yes," and pointed down the hallway to my door. I gave him a dollar and walked over to my door where I found a padded envelope within a larger international bubble envelope containing a conditionally rare 1902 MS-64 (you know what) now 4/0, none higher, worth over $500. No signature required.]

[GoldFinger1969]

Back To The OP (again !) ......the lower-priced stuff continues to see STRONG bidding activity.  Lots of moderns I was buying for $50-$80 in 2019 and early-2020 are now $100-$150 with the base metal down in price. 

I noted somewhere else here that Large Denomination bills ($500 and $1,000) in medium-to-lower grade have seen a big rise in the last 6-9 monts and it was noted in some currency newsletter.

We just have to see if this has staying power in terms of new collectors or buyers.....increased online bidding activity....registered bidders at HA, GC, etc.....and coin shop and coin show traffic.  

Time will tell, I guess.

Edited April 26, 2021 by GoldFinger1969