• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Submission FAILURE. NGC is turning sour
1 1

130 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, Conder101 said:

And if they had come back genuine he would have happily paid it.  But that was the risk he agreed to take That was the whole reason why they set up the authorized dealer network in the first place, so the authorized dealers could "pre-screen" the submissions and help keep collectors from sending in coins not worth submitting (optimistic grade estimates, counterfeits, and other coins that just weren't worth submitting).  That was why in the early years collectors couldn't submit directly to PCGS or NGC.  But the collectors insisted they should be able to direct submit, and now they pay for their mistakes.

Yup, caveat emptor ! (thumbsu

Er...how do you say submitter in Latin ? xD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well according to an online English to Latin translation site submit is submittere, and submitter is submitter

The phrase "Let the submitter beware" translates as "Sit submitter cave"

Edited by Conder101
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Conder101 said:

The phrase "Let the submitter beware" translates as "Sit submitter cave"

Well, I just said it....and this guy with a bunch of coins he was gonna send to a TPG decided to go sit in a cave. :)

I think something got lost in translation. xD

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Well, I just said it....and this guy with a bunch of coins he was gonna send to a TPG decided to go sit in a cave. :)

I think something got lost in translation. xD

 

This guy found out all his coins were counterfeits. How do you say, "Sitting and crying in a cave."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now imagine my coins are authentic and they're trying to rob me blind with either the coins (more importantly) or the $1000 bill.

You don't have to imagine, it's here and it's happening now.

They control the coin markets and the corporations are stronger than they've ever been.

God bless Bitcoin was invented.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

The thing is....by declaring the coins to be worth $200,000 he was setting himself up for a big bill.

If you have raw coins and this is how the TPGs operate, then you better be right on the value or close to it.....OR.....have them screened beforehand to make sure you don't pay a fee based on $200,000 in assessed value for coins that are worth less than $1,000.

Firstly, I was expecting my coins to be graded and secondly I did not expect that they will flag them as "Non-genuine", deliberetely imho and on top of all that, they sent me this ridonculus bill.

What a disgraceful and corrupt place this centralized industry has become.

It's out of any proportion.

Edited by Joejingojack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, gmarguli said:

Hey Joe, did PCGS also call these counterfeit or have you not tried them yet?

 

I haven't contacted PCGS. They're not UK based. 

And their reputation is even worse.

Edited by Joejingojack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, thebeav said:

Kudos to NGC for allowing this thread to run it's course.

If this were posted across the street, it would have been locked and redacted and no one would have learned anything.

I agree.  I learned much to my amazement that Goldfinger1969 never sent a coin in for grading and was even unaware that a coin's retail value is an integral part of grading cost.  There is, and probably never was a standard grading fee.  You may want to think about that next time you trip over a Brasher Doubloon in the lions' pit.  Anyone surprised there was not a smidgen of sympathy coming from VKurtB?  Lastly, and quite frankly, we saw another side of the ordinarily staid Coins and Medals. And I've a sneaky suspicion zadok says what he means and means what he says.

Man, I love this place.  Kudos to the Moderator(s) who graciously allowed the thread to run its course, occasional extraneous derailments and all.  And the OP hasn't even been around a month yet!  Remarkable. By comparison, the gentleman from Nevada tore through here like a tornado in all of one week.

Edited by Quintus Arrius
Addition of superfluous fluff.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

NGC comes out smelling like a rose here.  They did nothing wrong.

As for my lack of knowledge on grading, I think I realized that sending in an expensive coin would have some higher fees -- but I definitely didn't realize that a 90-99% reduction in market value based on countefeit or other grading status would NOT be matched by a cut in grading fees.  For my needs, that doesn't even really matter even if I start sending in some coins since the difference in the coins values would be minimal in most cases (since I mostly have gold and silver coins).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

NGC comes out smelling like a rose here.  They did nothing wrong.

As for my lack of knowledge on grading, I think I realized that sending in an expensive coin would have some higher fees -- but I definitely didn't realize that a 90-99% reduction in market value based on countefeit or other grading status would NOT be matched by a cut in grading fees.  For my needs, that doesn't even really matter even if I start sending in some coins since the difference in the coins values would be minimal in most cases (since I mostly have gold and silver coins).

I stumbled across this thread yesterday but have not read all (only some) of the posts.

It's a rant and nothing more, the only thing it is expressing is that the outcome was contrary to their personal preference.  I have seen similar sentiments before, but without the conspiratorial accusations.  Somehow, I have the sneaking suspicion it has a lot to do with the amount of grading fees paid.  I'd be disgusted too, but at myself if I wasted that kind of money

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

I'd be disgusted too, but at myself if I wasted that kind of money

That was what was 100% new to me....I didn't realize if you got billed on $200,000 in coin value and they turn out to be worth $2,000 that you still pay as if they were worth the former.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

That was what was 100% new to me....I didn't realize if you got billed on $200,000 in coin value and they turn out to be worth $2,000 that you still pay as if they were worth the former.

In this case the coins aren’t worth much if anything. It’s not like they are worth 10% of original. The only time a counterfeit would have any value is if it was made from a precious metal, and then only the metal content value. 
 

I’m curious how large the pile is at NGC and PCGS of coins that weren’t what was expected and they just don’t pay and say keep them. In that case the TPG is out the money and time. I know there was a recent rant from a guy that thought he had a California territorial rarity but PCGS deemed it counterfeit. Everyone on here gave the opinion, even David Lange told him NGC would say the same. Anyway his coin was still at PCGS and he alluded to the fact he wasn’t paying the grading fee unless it was original. I bet it happens all too often. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Woods020 said:

Anyway his coin was still at PCGS and he alluded to the fact he wasn’t paying the grading fee unless it was original. I bet it happens all too often. 

Then the TPGs need to bill in advance and/or get a downpayment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Then the TPGs need to bill in advance and/or get a downpayment.

They do, you always pay up-front.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Conder101 said:

The thing is....by declaring the coins to be worth $200,000 he was setting himself up for a big bill.

But -- if he had declared their real value - 50-cents each or $2.00 total - his bill would have been much smaller and he could still have gotten nice photos to print on a new T-shirt. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, thebeav said:

They do, you always pay up-front.

I thought Joe said he wasn't going to pay the fees and some posts here said the TPGs have been stuck in the past.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

That was what was 100% new to me....I didn't realize if you got billed on $200,000 in coin value and they turn out to be worth $2,000 that you still pay as if they were worth the former.

I think they charge you by what value you write in that they are worth. Is the way I understood it when I've submitted. But the only coin that had a higher value I turned in was less than $1000. V75 eagle. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I thought Joe said he wasn't going to pay the fees and some posts here said the TPGs have been stuck in the past.

That's probably why they really want you to submit thru a dealer. People like that will probably ruin it for everybody. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I thought Joe said he wasn't going to pay the fees and some posts here said the TPGs have been stuck in the past.

The form requires CC information and if you don't pay this way, bank account details I believe.  By signing the form and submitting the coins, you are agreeing in advance to pay for the services rendered.  When I have submitted to NGC, my recollection is they charged my card after the grading results were finalized.  The submitter can dispute the charge but good luck winning that.

As you know, in exchange for the fee, the TPG agrees to provide an opinion on the authenticity and grade.  From what I can tell, that's what the OP received.  We can debate the amount of the fee due to the declared value but like a few others have written, the submitter (OP) presumably provided their own estimate.  You can't complete the on-line NGC form without declaring value.

There is nothing unusual in how it works, no different than getting your hair cut or any number of other services.  Disliking the service you received doesn't mean you don't have to pay.

Edited by World Colonial
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

The form requires CC information and if you don't pay this way, bank account details I believe.  By signing the form and submitting the coins, you are agreeing in advance to pay for the services rendered.  When I have submitted to NGC, my recollection is they charged my card after the grading results were finalized.  The submitter can dispute the charge but good luck winning that.

As you know, in exchange for the fee, the TPG agrees to provide an opinion on the authenticity and grade.  From what I can tell, that's what the OP received.  We can debate the amount of the fee due to the declared value but like a few others have written, the submitter (OP) presumably provided their own estimate.  You can't complete the on-line NGC form without declaring value.

There is nothing unusual in how it works, no different than getting your hair cut or any number of other services.  Disliking the service you received doesn't mean you don't have to pay.

That's how I've always submitted was online. That's what you do when you fill out the line on the form. Give an estimate and they tell you what it'd gonna cost right then. Before you even print it. And you also gotta click the box that says you agree to their rules. Then write your credit card info on the form and mail it in. Unless you use check. I don't think they will even grade it unless they receive a form of payment. Or That's the way I took it anyways. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes I had one time where my credit card had some suspicious activity and was sent a new one. At the same time I had coins grading. Once the coins were graded it wouldn’t show the final grade and said to contact the accounting department. The credit card info is on the form, but they don’t run it until after. So if the info is incorrect they don’t know until their work is done. And somehow I’ve seen a couple people reference they aren’t paying the bill. Not sure how they go about it but it does seem people are sticking them with fakes when they find out. I hope not, but it seems it may happen some. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They should run the cc up front, but I assume they want to ensure it shouldn’t be at a higher tier before they bill. So if the credit card info is incorrect they don’t know until it is graded. It will probably show it wasn’t genuine still but if it is it won’t show the final numeric grade until payment. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Woods020 said:

They should run the cc up front, but I assume they want to ensure it shouldn’t be at a higher tier before they bill. So if the credit card info is incorrect they don’t know until it is graded. It will probably show it wasn’t genuine still but if it is it won’t show the final numeric grade until payment. 

Or if the charged so much of it up front. That way they can get some of it anyways. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:popcorn: Wow. I go away for a few days to do some house shopping and things get interesting.

I would feel for Joe and sympathize if he was a little more humble and less libelous in his statements. It's always amazing when people find or buy (at super low prices) these coins that are really rare and valuable and don't seriously question the authenticity of this stuff. It really goes to show you how the counterfeiter and con men continue to make a living.

This whole thing has me thinking of that time I looked on that WISH website and they were selling Morgan dollars for $1 and people were posting about how happy they were with their new "coin." O.o

But... yeah. Props to NGC. They are the most tolerant host I think I've ever seen. If someone called me a thief in my own house they'd be getting hit with the door on the way out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
1 1