Interesting article/blog on silver availability 1 1

[Woods020]

8 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

It will be viewed as "too high" if and when people ever correlate it with declining living standards.  That's one of the points I was trying to make.  Up to this point especially in the prior year, most people (even many who should know better) seem to believe there is no consequence to this unprecedented issuance or claim it can be worried about later..

It's probably not "too high" yet because the actual public debt that must be serviced is "only" about 85% of current GDP.  This is the nominal $28T+ less amounts held by government "trust funds" and the Federal Reserve.  It's still "manageable" but the more immediate problem is the exponential growth which is completely unsustainable.

Some have tried to rationalize it with a comparison to Japan where it is much higher.  There is no specific point which will trigger a USD crisis.  I believe it will be far lower than Japan (American society isn't remotely as cohesive) but there is no possibility of knowing this in advance.

I can’t and won’t argue with that logic 

[World Colonial]

15 minutes ago, Woods020 said:

1. The JP Morgan’s of the world may become insolvent on paper, but I don’t think will ever be allowed to fail. Arguments can be made on both sides of that and I won’t give an opinion, but most importantly I don’t think a JP Morgan will be allowed to suffer the same fate as their acquired Bears Stern. The risk may be there but the consequences may not .

Absent some really unforeseen event, I don't think JP Morgan will fail in the traditional sense but this doesn't change what I wrote.  My primary point is that the banking system as a whole only appears "sound" because of everything else I wrote.  

19 minutes ago, Woods020 said:

2. While I fully agree our market is “sick”, and actually sicker than we want to publicly admit, there are a lot of sound economic models that suggest this isn’t a sickness per se, but delayed spending. The demand and resources are there with willing spenders, but the opportunity has been paused  So as things begin to normalize, or find a new normal is more like it, will this current state of economic affairs quickly correct itself as the pent up consumer demand plays out. I certainly have all fingers and toes crossed this will be the case. Time will tell  

 

I don't place reliance on models.  How reliable would these models be without the distortions I described?  The financial and economic community (publicly anyway) was also almost completely caught off guard by 2008.

There is no "new normal", not in the sense that I interpret this sentiment.  This "new normal" infers something for nothing in perpetuity which is ridiculous.  There is nothing unique about the US economy where this society can live beyond its means essentially "forever" with so little if any consequence.  As I wrote here recently, this doesn't just contradict economics but physics.

 It's my claim that most wealth is fake, from the inflated all-everything asset mania.  I also believe that most people are actually not that far from being broke.  The worst of 2008 lasted only about six months where asset prices crashed first and then millions lost their jobs.   It won't take much to create a repeat.

By comparison, the US (and much of the world economy) and most of the population is in a far more precarious position versus 1929 before the Great Depression.  Far more inflated markets, far more debt, and far less fiscal latitude to offset declining private demand.  Hardly anyone is even close to being self-sufficient either in the sense of being able to produce or obtain the things they need to survive.

I'm not a "gloom and doom" believer.  My position is that the average American is destined to become poorer or a lot poorer in the future but not linearly.

[cladking]

4 hours ago, RWB said:

A couple of brief thoughts. 1) the general public does not buy and sell silver, or any other commodity; 2) industrial users of commodities want to maintain their material flow and sources, plus protect anticipated future need - this is all outside the "spot" and other Fido markets; 3) "biblical proportions" refers to a tiny area in the Middle East roughly between Babylon and Thebes -- not something vast and all encompassing.

People walk into coin shops and jewelry stores everyday and buy silver and gold.  These tend to be small sales of an eagle or two but there are some larger ones as well.  Then there's eBay and on-line sales as well.  

It is a relatively small percentage of the population but in aggregate there is a lot of metal being bought in many different forms.  Every such sale reduces the amount of 1000 OZ bars that can be produced and every time a premium is paid it increases the pressure on the flow of material toward the industrial users.   

The futures markets were designed almost strictly for use by the users and miners.  Now days much of the activity is speculators and illegal activity by banks.  Miners still use it a little but the users to not do much in the futures markets.  If a buying panic were to develop then users would be seeking physical metal because few people will still trust the futures markets.  A spike higher would force the market to default because the silver doesn't really exist.  This would lead to a broad based demand to real metal rather than paper.  The shortage of silver would be extreme but it would not last because the smelters would be overwhelmed.  

When I say "biblical proportions" I merely meant the demand would be enormous in comparison to the supply.

 

Obviously there are many ways all our macroeconomic problems could play themselves out and nothing in the future is ever a "done deal".  It merely appears the government has already decided to double down on decades of deficit spending.  They actually believe all they have to do to reign in even hyper-inflation is to reduce money production.  I personally believe this would be impossible even if the bond markets weren't choreographed.  This is because all money including the US dollar are valued by belief of the users.  If people come to believe the dollar has no value bonds will crash.  Even a tiny change in perception would set off waves of derivative and computer trading that would cause the collapse of the entire system.  Our central planners could probably avert mass starvation until a new currency is invented but it would be highly chaotic and politically expensive for Congress et al.  

We have a government that thinks they can control an implosion of the dollar just as easily as they are now controlling the markets.  I think we're going to see if they are correct.  They will try to hold inflation to 8 or 10% but people losing so much money and getting 0% in the bank are going to spend it on land, metal, and inflation stocks.  This will be inflationary itself.  The die is cast and silver is acting as the canary in the coal mine.  There will be more speculation in more markets as money supply continues higher and people lose ever more in their bank accounts.  

For now it's just silver and there are still government and market actions that can affect how living far beyond our means plays out.  

[RWB]

21 minutes ago, cladking said:

People walk into coin shops and jewelry stores everyday and buy silver and gold.  These tend to be small sales of an eagle or two but there are some larger ones as well.  Then there's eBay and on-line sales as well.  

It is a relatively small percentage of the population but in aggregate there is a lot of metal being bought in many different forms.

Minuscule and completely within reporting noise -- within reporting hummmm --- within reporting sssssss.

 Demand from such is not even proportional to the population of these buyers -- it is far smaller; they have no leverage.

Doesn't matter how futures markets were designed or intended - most do not work that way any more. The closest are basic agricultural commodities that have a very wide source distribution -- maize, wheat, soy beans - but those are also failing as agribusiness gains increasing control over remaining "family farms."

Few countries have a consistent approach to government infrastructure renewal -- and that is key to moving products for the private sector. If governments and the public do not do it now, it will only become more costly later -- and the funding will only become more of a burden. Some businesses pay a little into infrastructure maintenance - heavy trucking comes to mind for roads and highways. BUT - those truck payments do not flow to the water, sewer and communications lines daily rattled by heavy trucks.

Anyway, the article is more bologna that souse, but remains funny.

[GoldFinger1969]

2 hours ago, Woods020 said:

1. The JP Morgan’s of the world may become insolvent on paper, but I don’t think will ever be allowed to fail. Arguments can be made on both sides of that and I won’t give an opinion, but most importantly I don’t think a JP Morgan will be allowed to suffer the same fate as their acquired Bears Stern. The risk may be there but the consequences may not  

Again, Bear Stearns was leveraged close to 30:1 whereas JP Morgan is probably closer to 10:1.  JPM's asset quality is light-years better than Bear's.  Ironically, Bear was never supposed to take the risks it took -- Alan "Ace" Greenburg said BS was supposed to be like a bookmaker, winning no matter which way the markets went.

Unless we suffer some global or national catastrophe -- global nuclear war, Yellowstone Super Volcano goes off, etc. -- I don't see how the financial industry suffers a meltdown or the #1 bank in the country approaches insolvency.

Even during the 2008 Financial Crisis, JPM and Goldman Sachs each still had $50 billion in equity cushion at the nadir.  And that was with systemic risk to the banking system, which is much less than normal economic downturns, even the heart attack we suffered in March 2020 at the height of the pandemic.  In 2008, JPM and GS didn't even need or want TARP $$$ but the government forced them to take it.

[GoldFinger1969]

2 hours ago, World Colonial said:

I'm not a "gloom and doom" believer.  My position is that the average American is destined to become poorer or a lot poorer in the future but not linearly.

I wouldn't worry about it, WC.  It took Greece -- a 3rd-rate economy with Socialism taking hold -- 30 years to implode.  Even if the U.S. is about to peak, a global reserve financial superpower with the largest and most liquid financial markets in the world and the rule of law and private property rights (well, until AOC takes over  ) will take much longer than 30 years to hit the wall.

[Woods020]

8 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Again, Bear Stearns was leveraged close to 30:1 whereas JP Morgan is probably closer to 10:1.  JPM's asset quality is light-years better than Bear's.  Ironically, Bear was never supposed to take the risks it took -- Alan "Ace" Greenburg said BS was supposed to be like a bookmaker, winning no matter which way the markets went.

Unless we suffer some global or national catastrophe -- global nuclear war, Yellowstone Super Volcano goes off, etc. -- I don't see how the financial industry suffers a meltdown or the #1 bank in the country approaches insolvency.

Even during the 2008 Financial Crisis, JPM and Goldman Sachs each still had $50 billion in equity cushion at the nadir.  And that was with systemic risk to the banking system, which is much less than normal economic downturns, even the heart attack we suffered in March 2020 at the height of the pandemic.  In 2008, JPM and GS didn't even need or want TARP $$$ but the government forced them to take it.

I’m not disagreeing with you. I don’t believe JPM is anywhere close to insolvency. I’m simply saying you can’t just say JPM would reach insolvency at X amount of debt because it isn’t a free market. Even if times were dismal and they reached X, I don’t foresee insolvency ever being an option. They are truly too big to fail as the saying goes, especially with some past lessons learned. I’m aligned their outlook isn’t catastrophic. My comment was theoretical. 

To be clear I agree with both you and world colonial on your premise, only disagree on a few nuances here and there but not a surprise there is no consensus. Example I do believe models to the extent they are the best predictor, understanding no model is perfect because of external or unknown variables. If they were perfect we could predict stock rise and fall very easily, but we see it isn’t so simple. 
 

WC on the point that on paper we are in a downward trend and theoretically it could lead to loss of purchasing power. Can’t argue that. This is why people are trying to hedge inflation with silver, albeit I’m not convinced it will be effective. 
 

I agree with Goldfinger in that while this is a possibility we aren’t near a financial market collapse of any kind. Decreases in purchasing power and the relative strength of a US dollar maybe, but not a market collapse and the fall of the financial super powers no. 

[GoldFinger1969]

I will say this:  financial markets can overreact on the downside just as the upside, but apocalyptic predictions have NEVER paid off.  You can't invest or act like financial or global nuclear armageddon is going to happen next week.

The doom-and-gloom crown had 1 great decade, the 1970's.  Since then, every financial or economic hit has been a great buying opportunity for stocks and signalled a revival for companies, the economy, and the country.

[World Colonial]

2 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I will say this:  financial markets can overreact on the downside just as the upside, but apocalyptic predictions have NEVER paid off.  You can't invest or act like financial or global nuclear armageddon is going to happen next week.

The doom-and-gloom crown had 1 great decade, the 1970's.  Since then, every financial or economic hit has been a great buying opportunity for stocks and signalled a revival for companies, the economy, and the country.

My posts were hardly apocalyptic.  Claiming the majority of Americans are going to be poorer or a lot poorer because the country has been living beyond its means is hardly radical, it's completely rational.

Anyone who knows anything about market history knows this is a mania.  Anyone who claims it isn't a mania believes that it's somehow different this time and that somehow, the United States economy and American living standards are exempt from reality.  Why would anyone believe that?

The 1970's weren't "doom and gloom".  By any sensible standard, it was a time of minor difficulty for a segment of the population but that's all.

I'd also like to know the last time the stock market overreacted to the downside in my adult lifetime.  I can think of maybe one instance, October of 1987.  It certainly didn't happen after the dot.com bubble or the GFC.  The US stock market never really got that cheap during either period.  It was cheap in August of 1982 after the 16 year bear market in inflation adjusted prices.

Edited April 18, 2021 by World Colonial

[World Colonial]

2 hours ago, Woods020 said:

I’m not disagreeing with you. I don’t believe JPM is anywhere close to insolvency. I’m simply saying you can’t just say JPM would reach insolvency at X amount of debt because it isn’t a free market. 

I'm not specifically claiming JP Morgan will or won't become insolvent.  I was using it as an example as part of my earlier rebuttal that the banking system is in such great shape.  The financial system and the economy isn't either.

2 hours ago, Woods020 said:

I agree with Goldfinger in that while this is a possibility we aren’t near a financial market collapse of any kind. Decreases in purchasing power and the relative strength of a US dollar maybe, but not a market collapse and the fall of the financial super powers no. 

I wasn't stating it is imminent.  My primary claim is that the living standards of most Americans are going to decline noticeably,, whether it happens suddenly or protracted.  Given the current political response, I expect it will mostly be protracted which will be worse.

The current economic performance is substantially artificial.  How can anyone not see that?  Fake prosperity from the loosest monetary policy ever with most or all "growth" since 2008 attributed to increased government deficit spending.

Like many of my opinions, I presume it is an unpopular one but there you have it.  It's unpopular because of the implications it has for society both individually and collectively.

As for the fall of the superpowers, if you are referring to the US or any other leading developing country, my comments don't have anything to do with that, at this time.

[World Colonial]

2 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I wouldn't worry about it, WC.  It took Greece -- a 3rd-rate economy with Socialism taking hold -- 30 years to implode.  Even if the U.S. is about to peak, a global reserve financial superpower with the largest and most liquid financial markets in the world and the rule of law and private property rights (well, until AOC takes over  ) will take much longer than 30 years to hit the wall.

These posts have gone somewhat off track but anyway, you seem to be misreading my sentiments.

From the accounts I have read, I don't think it would be inaccurate to claim that Greece experienced something worse than the 1930's depression.  I have no idea what it is like now (don't follow it anymore) and don't know if what I read was fully accurate, but it was quite bad after 2011.   I don't see a Greece here for the foreseeable future but I do expect living standards to be noticeably worse for a noticeable proportion of the population than you apparently do.

Another thing I will add is that though this is somewhat different due to COVID (a negative too), circumstances never look bad or terrible at any peak.  This happens at the bottom.

The best explanation for the current myopia is what I would describe as the unfounded faith the public has in the ability of the government and central banks in developed countries to prevent declining living standards.  I can anticipate that I will receive disagreement on this also but they cannot.

It's unfounded optimism (the cause of the mania) which is holding up the economy and the financial markets and nothing more.  The "fundamentals" are poor.

[GoldFinger1969]

54 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

My posts were hardly apocalyptic.  Claiming the majority of Americans are going to be poorer or a lot poorer because the country has been living beyond its means is hardly radical, it's completely rational.

Noted.....I was referring to the Doom-and-Gloom crowd. 

54 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

Anyone who knows anything about market history knows this is a mania.  Anyone who claims it isn't a mania believes that it's somehow different this time and that somehow, the United States economy and American living standards are exempt from reality.  Why would anyone believe that?

I actually think there is less froth now than in 2000.  Certainly valuation measures are BETTER today.   While the valuations of SPACs, EV stocks, and technology, not to mention bond yields, are probably going to re-set, I don't see crashes in the future. 

Just deep corrections.  

54 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

The 1970's weren't "doom and gloom".  By any sensible standard, it was a time of minor difficulty for a segment of the population but that's all.

The end of Bretton Woods, floating/sinking currencies, gas lines and gasoline shocks, double-digit inflation, multiple recessions, credit controls -- outside of HAPPY DAYS and LAVERNE AND SHIRLEY, not much to talk about. 

54 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

I'd also like to know the last time the stock market overreacted to the downside in my adult lifetime.  I can think of maybe one instance, October of 1987.  It certainly didn't happen after the dot.com bubble or the GFC.  The US stock market never really got that cheap during either period.  It was cheap in August of 1982 after the 16 year bear market in inflation adjusted prices.

Last March 2020.  Clearly, the S&P 500 should not have fallen 34% in 5 weeks.  Should have bought alot more, my bad. 

Can also include value stocks last November which took off after the vaccines were about to hit the market.

Edited April 18, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

9 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I actually think there is less froth now than in 2000.  Certainly valuation measures are BETTER today.   While the valuations of SPACs, EV stocks, and technology, not to mention bond yields, are probably going to re-set, I don't see crashes in the future. 

Just deep corrections.  

It depends upon the valuation measure used.  By what I consider to be the little of value P/E ratio, maybe.  I don't follow it as closely anymore.  By others, definitely worse now.   Recently, several foreign markets have "broken out" or appear to but valuation wise, the US is still on an island alone in deep outer space.

The absolute worst are credit markets, not something like crypto or NFT,  because that's what's propping up this whole house of cards.  There is no question that credit quality and leverage is far worse now than 2000, even as economic conditions have noticeably deteriorated.

9 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

The end of Bretton Woods, floating/sinking currencies, gas lines and gasoline shocks, double-digit inflation, multiple recessions, credit controls -- outside of HAPPY DAYS and LAVERNE AND SHIRLEY, not much to talk about. 

Look at living standards.  It wasn't that bad for most Americans.

9 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Last March 2020.  Clearly, the S&P 500 should not have fallen 34% in 5 weeks.  Should have bought alot more, my bad. 

Can also include value stocks last November which took off after the vaccines were about to hit the market.

Five weeks, maybe not.  Were stocks cheap at the 2020 low?  Not even close in the aggregate.  There are always pockets of relative "value".

To be clear, there are advances and declines of different scales.  Buying a "dip" like 2020 has worked to this point because the bubble is still inflating, not because of any supposed favorable "fundamentals".

I'll admit I underestimated the current "policy response".  But the point I was making is that it has mostly "worked" because there appears to be no cost to it.

That's going to change "soon", because the actual "fundamentals" are far worse than most people believe.  The trigger isn't some specific event, but negative psychology.  I'm not getting into politics but you should be able to read my inference.  As an example of a future negative "fundamental", there is a noticeable segment of the population who has been led to believe "happy days" are finally here for them.  It's only possible at someone else's expense because there isn't enough "pie" for everyone, not now and not ever.  Many are going to be disappointed and when they are, a lot of them are going to get angry. 

This is a primary difference between the US and many others, totally unrealistic expectations.  It's one thing for a society to experience declining living standards with modest expectations.  The US doesn't have that, not by a long shot.  I'd say the sentiments you expressed in a prior post are a relatively accurate expectations of how Americans think, not all but enough of them.  

[GoldFinger1969]

OK, back to the OP...... has anybody bought or looked at silver coins or bars lately ?  What's happened to the premiums ?

Price of silver itself has done nothing.  Mid-20's for months now.

[Fenntucky Mike]

The premiums for bullion coins that I pay attention to seems about the same as it has been for the last 3 years, 15 - 20% from the middleman, for 1oz bulk coin purchases of bullion coins with mintage limits between 30,000 to unlimited. These are items that do have a numismatic value, if your looking at low end silver rounds/bars I would expect the premiums are lower. I have been selling off some 10oz silver coins and they have been going for 80 - 100% above spot, why pay a mega premium for a 10oz coin when you can pay much less for 10 one ounce coins? How much is the increased demand for PMs due to stackers/PM speculators and how much is due to numismatic speculation/collectors? It seems all 2020 bullion, specifically graded bullion, is going for crazy prices. Emergency Production, delayed releases, new designs, a remembrance of 2020/the pandemic, these among other things has gotten people worked up and looking to hoard because they think they can flip it for a profit in the future. When everybody goes to sell because spot is higher or they are forced due to rising costs, lookout. 

[GoldFinger1969]

Mike, what about ASEs ?

Edited April 18, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[Fenntucky Mike]

15 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Mike, what about ASEs ?

Ouch! Cheapest ASEs I'm seeing are at a 30% premium, if you buy a monster box. The 15 - 20% I was mentioning above was for world bullion, Krugerrands, Chiwoo's, Maple Leaves, etc.. Those are around 20% premium. 

Edit: I'm looking at 2021 coins for all but the Chiwoo's

Edited April 18, 2021 by Fenntucky Mike

[GoldFinger1969]

6 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Ouch! Cheapest ASEs I'm seeing are at a 30% premium, if you buy a monster box. The 15 - 20% I was mentioning above was for world bullion, Krugerrands, Chiwoo's, Maple Leaves, etc.. Those are around 20% premium. 

Wow, so you have to pay about $32-$33 for an ASE.   Normally, with silver at about $26, you'd pay what ?  $28 ?

Edited April 18, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[Alex in PA.]

3 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Price of silver itself has done nothing. 

Kitco shows Silver at:  $25.95 Bid  $26.05 Ask with a 0.13 + change.  2021 American Silver Eagle (Unc) at Pinehurst for $38.68.   

Not for me.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Alex in PA.

[GoldFinger1969]

It's almost like they are EXPECTING silver to rise shortly and just looking to jump-start the price.

[Fenntucky Mike]

15 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Wow, so you have to pay about $32-$33 for an ASE.   Normally, with silver at about $26, you'd pay what ?  $28 ?

My math is getting sloppy, cheapest ASE's I could find in a quick search are $36 (35.99658, buying a monster box), I'm using $26.12 as spot, so premium is 27.44% on ASE's roughly. I don't pay attention to ASEs much but a 15 - 20% premium has been normal on world bullion from what I remember, I'll have to go back and check. For reference 2021 silver Britannia $32.36 each (monster box) 19.29% premium. 

[World Colonial]

2 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

It's almost like they are EXPECTING silver to rise shortly and just looking to jump-start the price.

The premiums have been near current levels since last March when the price tanked to $11+.  I mostly check golddealer.com but have also looked at APMEX on occasion.  Spread is $8.50 for the ASE, $27.99 bid and $36.49 ask.  Somewhat cheaper at APMEX if bought in volume.

[World Colonial]

3 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Wow, so you have to pay about $32-$33 for an ASE.   Normally, with silver at about $26, you'd pay what ?  $28 ?

I think the answer to your question is because the physical market is actually very illiquid.  I have not read anyone else admit it but this seems to be the reality.  I have read plenty of claims about a shortage and on the golddealer.com website, they have been out of many products for months.

Above I surmised it might be a hedging issue because if it isn't that, I have no idea why dealers don't raise their bids.  Surely that would make some difference.  If the demand is so great, why don't they cut their spreads to try to make more profit on volume?

Physical silver is a horrible "investment" right now with these spreads.  Even if it went up 50% overnight, the profit to the retail buyer wouldn't be a meaningful %, especially with the existing unfavorable tax treatment.

In the example I gave above, 50% increase = $39 +$2 premium (roughly) = $41 sell price.  Buy price is $36.50 leaving a profit of $4.50.  In my state (GA) 34% marginal tax rate (federal  and state) leaving a net profit of a whopping $3 per ounce.

That's right, less than a 10% net gain on a 50% increase.

Edited April 18, 2021 by World Colonial

[GoldFinger1969]

WC...whenever one pays a big premium, you're speculating on a huge move up to bail you out.  Same with closed-end investment funds. 

[cladking]

22 hours ago, RWB said:

Minuscule and completely within reporting noise -- within reporting hummmm --- within reporting sssssss.

 Demand from such is not even proportional to the population of these buyers -- it is far smaller; they have no leverage.

Doesn't matter how futures markets were designed or intended - most do not work that way any more. The closest are basic agricultural commodities that have a very wide source distribution -- maize, wheat, soy beans - but those are also failing as agribusiness gains increasing control over remaining "family farms."

Few countries have a consistent approach to government infrastructure renewal -- and that is key to moving products for the private sector. If governments and the public do not do it now, it will only become more costly later -- and the funding will only become more of a burden. Some businesses pay a little into infrastructure maintenance - heavy trucking comes to mind for roads and highways. BUT - those truck payments do not flow to the water, sewer and communications lines daily rattled by heavy trucks.

Anyway, the article is more bologna that souse, but remains funny.

There's less than one ounce of silver for every human being on the planet.  It doesn't take many people buying an ounce or two three times a year to put a giant squeeze on available supply.  This silver becomes an overhang when prices increase but only when it is actually sold.  We're talking about a change in sentiment here.  When people lose confidence it might never be restored.  Rather than sell some of these people might continue to buy if inflation heads higher and interest rates stay at zero.  

Infrastructure is grand but we're sitting on 30 trillion dollars of debt and a crumbling infrastructure.  It would be like money in the bank if it were sound.  Instead it's more debt.  We've borrowed from the future for two generations.  

I believe things are coming to a head and government has decided our direction.  If so then a great deal of silver is going to disappear from a system where much of the silver is already owned by numerous entities.  Joe six pack is outbidding industrial silver users.   

[GoldFinger1969]

41 minutes ago, cladking said:

There's less than one ounce of silver for every human being on the planet.  It doesn't take many people buying an ounce or two three times a year to put a giant squeeze on available supply.  This silver becomes an overhang when prices increase but only when it is actually sold.  We're talking about a change in sentiment here.  When people lose confidence it might never be restored.  Rather than sell some of these people might continue to buy if inflation heads higher and interest rates stay at zero.  Infrastructure is grand but we're sitting on 30 trillion dollars of debt and a crumbling infrastructure.  It would be like money in the bank if it were sound.  Instead it's more debt.  We've borrowed from the future for two generations.   I believe things are coming to a head and government has decided our direction.  If so then a great deal of silver is going to disappear from a system where much of the silver is already owned by numerous entities.  Joe six pack is outbidding industrial silver users.   

I hope the price rises (slowly) but I don't see it right now.  Maybe in a few years when solar and other industrial uses hit.  Copper with EVs seems a better play.

https://www.silverinstitute.org/silver-supply-demand/

Billions of people have no need for silver, they just want running water and food.