Interesting CAC Copycat 1 1

[Woods020]

I ran across this interesting scheme. “MAC picks up where CAC leaves off” 😂

I continue to be blown away by the various methods of deception in this hobby. It’s mind boggling. 
 

https://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=284177411072&category=171526&pm=1&ds=0&t=1617382373000&ver=0&cspheader=1

[Revenant]

People are crazy and dumb.

There's a seller that keeps insisting that the Zimbabwe notes are going to shoot up in value one day even though interest in them and their value has declined as memory of the 2008 hyperinflation fades and theres little reason to think that trend will reverse. 

[GoldFinger1969]

I literally was laughing:

"When you have PCGS or NGC certified coins like a 1953-S Jefferson Nickel in MS-65 selling for $22.00 and its counterpart MS-65 FS selling for $22,000.00 (1,000 times the price of the non-steps), one realizes the gap is too great. Grade Enhancement is now a must as the price spreads are out of line. You now have a MAC & GE MS-65 (4-FS) selling 20% to 30% of the 5-FS value, it becomes very clear as to the value of grade enhancements. Another example is the 1999 American Silver Eagle in NGC MS-69 selling for $65 and its MS-70 counterpart at $6,500 or 100 times greater. A MAC NGC MS-69 has considerably more value and could be worth 10% of the MS-70 value."

 

[Woods020]

11 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I literally was laughing:

"When you have PCGS or NGC certified coins like a 1953-S Jefferson Nickel in MS-65 selling for $22.00 and its counterpart MS-65 FS selling for $22,000.00 (1,000 times the price of the non-steps), one realizes the gap is too great. Grade Enhancement is now a must as the price spreads are out of line. You now have a MAC & GE MS-65 (4-FS) selling 20% to 30% of the 5-FS value, it becomes very clear as to the value of grade enhancements. Another example is the 1999 American Silver Eagle in NGC MS-69 selling for $65 and its MS-70 counterpart at $6,500 or 100 times greater. A MAC NGC MS-69 has considerably more value and could be worth 10% of the MS-70 value."

 

It’s insanity at its best. The sad thing is someone may buy their coins at a huge premium believing what they say. 

[Fenntucky Mike]

Sending in all my 4FS Jeff's, 90% FT Roose's and Full Steps Memorial Linc's in right now.  I get what they are/were trying to do but when a coin is a low grade there's a point where no one cares if there are 4FS or 3, etc...

Here's more if you're so inclined. 

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/florida-firm-stickering-certified-coins-with-grade-enhancements.html 

[Just Bob]

Greed. Pure and simple.

[Hoghead515]

I like how they say, "Were here to fulfill your dreams and desires."  I been dreaming of all mine having higher grades. Does that mean they will get a sticker?

Edited April 5, 2021 by Hoghead515

[zadok]

15 minutes ago, Hoghead515 said:

I like how they say, "Were here to fulfill your dreams and desires."  I been dreaming of all mine having higher grades. Does that mean they will get a sticker?

yes but only if u wish upon a star.......

[Woods020]

43 minutes ago, zadok said:

yes but only if u wish upon a star.......

Or pay the fee...

[JT2]

14 hours ago, Revenant said:

insisting that the Zimbabwe notes are going to shoot up

WHAT you mean i am not a Millionaire  

[JT2]

you can take all of those stickers and fancy labels and .......................oops they may kick me out of here

 

oh it just hit me these are the guys that started the accugrade company in Sandford florida back in the 80's.....hummm

Edited April 5, 2021 by JT2
update

[numisport]

In short MAC grade enhancements are just what CAC avoids. There's no way MAC can give you an honorable grade enhancement without removing the coin from its holder; That's what TPGs do for their fees. All CAC does is guarantee that coin is solid or above average for the grade. Fair enough 

[Revenant]

22 minutes ago, JT2 said:

WHAT you mean i am not a Millionaire  

I hope you enjoy what you own though. 😆

[JT2]

10 minutes ago, numisport said:

There's no way MAC can give you an honorable grade enhancement

hahaha they actually post a price guide for both PCGS and NGC graded coins and the prices in teh smae grade arnt even close.........WTF on that..........

[Fenntucky Mike]

5 minutes ago, JT2 said:

hahaha they actually post a price guide for both PCGS and NGC graded coins and the prices in teh smae grade arnt even close.........WTF on that..........

Was wondering the same thing. Some of the pricing isn't in their favor either. Why would the price of a coin be lower compared to other pricing guides with your sticker on it? Oh, wait that could be accurate. 

[Lem E]

They should just put a sticker on that says “ALMOST MADE IT, BUT PAY US ANYWAY”. $6k for a MS65? C’mon son. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-S-JEFFERSON-NICKEL-NGC-MS65-4FS-PQ-MAC-2ND-FINEST-REGISTRY-20-000-IN-FS-/402683246455?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286

[Coinbuf]

MAC stickers have been around for a while now, I would not be surprised if there are some followers that have bought in to this sticker.   I have a feeling that those that have may be in for a surprise when they go to sell these amazing treasures.

[Alex in PA.]

CAC, MAC, Blast White, et al = it's all about the money.  It's always been about the the money. 

[GoldFinger1969]

24 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

CAC, MAC, Blast White, et al = it's all about the money.  It's always been about the the money. 

CAC is legit and John Albanese has credentials.  MAC is a scam.

[Alex in PA.]

33 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

John Albanese has credentials. 

Certified Acceptance Corporation (CAC) is a Far Hills, New Jersey coin certification company started in 2007 by coin dealer John Albanese. 

If by "credentials" you mean 'Coin Dealer' I have never met the coin dealer that was in it for the fun.  Have you?  

[GoldFinger1969]

42 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

Certified Acceptance Corporation (CAC) is a Far Hills, New Jersey coin certification company started in 2007 by coin dealer John Albanese.  If by "credentials" you mean 'Coin Dealer' I have never met the coin dealer that was in it for the fun.  Have you? 

John Albanese was involved in the founding of PCGS and NGC.  He has an excellent reputation in the business.  He is very knowledgeable on gold coins, including Saints.

CAC eats their own cooking by making a market in CAC coins.  If they over-sticker, they lose money.  No conflict of interest for the most part.

Edited April 5, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[gmarguli]

1 hour ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

CAC is legit and John Albanese has credentials.  MAC is a scam.

JA took a concept that Alan Hager (MAC Founder) developed and ran with it.

Now AH takes a concept that JA founded and ran with it.

I trust both of them equally. 

[Alex in PA.]

15 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

CAC eats their own cooking by making a market in CAC coins.  If they over-sticker, they lose money.  No conflict of interest for the most part.

Yes, in the Stock Market it's called 'The Pump And Dump' and you can get prison time for it.  In the Coin Hobby no one cares and I'd say after 2.9 BILLION dollars CAC is all about the money.like all the rest.

[GoldFinger1969]

15 minutes ago, gmarguli said:

JA took a concept that Alan Hager (MAC Founder) developed and ran with it.  Now AH takes a concept that JA founded and ran with it. I trust both of them equally. 

I know nothing of Alan Hager.  All I know is that CAC coins have a sterling reputation, even among those who dislike having to pay-up for stickers.

And what Hager/MAC are doing is nothing like JA/CAC.  CAC is grading the TPGs by asserting if a given coin is solid for the grade, a problem that arose over the decades from loosey-goosey grading at times.  This was especially true with Saints and Morgans, two popular coin series.

MAC's goal seems to be to create a value for itself that will let coin holders sell their coins for a percentage of the gap to the next highest graded level or levels.  I don't see that happening but if you believe it to be true........

Does MAC make a market in their coins ?  If they do, then they should be happy to buy coins at 20-30% of the gap to the next graded level.  They should be willing to put their $$$ where their mouths are like CAC and JA.

 

[GoldFinger1969]

2 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

Yes, in the Stock Market it's called 'The Pump And Dump' and you can get prison time for it.  In the Coin Hobby no one cares and I'd say after 2.9 BILLION dollars CAC is all about the money.like all the rest.

CAC isn't pumping up coins to the best of my knowledge.  They are simply saying that they see higher-valued coins within a grade and are willing to pay a premium price for it.

They're not looking to SELL non-CAC coins, they are willing to BUY CAC-worthy coins.  It's the OPPOSITE of a "pump-and-dump" -- they are willing to BUY.

[GoldFinger1969]

5 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

Yes, in the Stock Market it's called 'The Pump And Dump' and you can get prison time for it.  In the Coin Hobby no one cares and I'd say after 2.9 BILLION dollars CAC is all about the money.like all the rest.

What is that $2.9 billion you reference ?

There's nothing wrong with making money.  Here's the difference:  I see CAC/JA as like a fund manager who has the bulk of their $$$ in the fund they are managing, plus the fees....versus another manager who has NOTHING invested in the fund and is just charging me 150 basis points or more. 

That's basically what MAC is doing/promising.  They have no skin in the game.

Let them buy MAC-endorsed coins at the value they are promising submitters they will sell at.

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[Crawtomatic]

Oh, found one of the other ones while browsing GC auction archives.  QA - http://qacoins.com/

The sticker is no more obtrusive than a CAC sticker and the grading criteria is sound.  

[Alex in PA.]

1 hour ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

What is that $2.9 billion you reference ?

I never said "there's anything wrong with making money".  I said: " It's always been about the the money."  and you went on the DEFENSIVE without knowing anything about the corporation you were defending. 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CAC has evaluated over 650,000 certified coins with a value of over $2.9 billion. The company has over 400 dealer members and over 500 collector members. The firm's website maintains a free serial number verification service, which helps deter CAC sticker counterfeiting, and Population Report, which assists in determining coin rarity.

As of September 2015, CAC had purchased over $425 million worth of its stickered coins.  The exact description of the "Pump and Dump".  In the US Stock Market you go to prison for that.  In the Coin Hobby they grant you sainthood.

[GoldFinger1969]

18 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

I never said "there's anything wrong with making money".  I said: " It's always been about the the money."  and you went on the DEFENSIVE without knowing anything about the corporation you were defending. 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CAC has evaluated over 650,000 certified coins with a value of over $2.9 billion. The company has over 400 dealer members and over 500 collector members. The firm's website maintains a free serial number verification service, which helps deter CAC sticker counterfeiting, and Population Report, which assists in determining coin rarity.

As of September 2015, CAC had purchased over $425 million worth of its stickered coins.  The exact description of the "Pump and Dump".  In the US Stock Market you go to prison for that.  In the Coin Hobby they grant you sainthood.

(1)  Wikepedia may or may not be true.  Anybody can alter the narrative.

(2)  CAC buying their own stickered product isn't a pump-and-dump......they're NOT dumping, they are buying.  They are eating their own home cooking.  If CAC says my MS-66 1923-D Saint is CAC-worthy and they pay an extra $1,000 for the coin, didn't they do the right thing ?

(3)  Where does that $2.9 billion number come from ?

(4)  I'm not defensive, Alex, I really don't care that much since I've never submitted to CAC and can't see myself sending to MAC.  CAC, whatever you think of them, is just trying to affirm quality.  MAC's marketing narrative seems stricly focused on promising to close the monetary gap between grades.

[Lem E]

I just don’t see the justification of a price of $6000 for a coin that has a normal value of $25. A MS65 Jefferson Nickel with no FS designation is just that. Not worth much of anything. Putting a MAC sticker on that is saying it has 4 complete steps still isn’t worth much of anything. How can they justify the price jump?