Counterfeit silver dollar coins in Philippines 0

[Silky]

A few years ago, I bought a variety of silver dollar coins in a remote village in the Philippines. After hours of visual comparisons with authentic coins, I can't see any distinguished difference in some of my coins. How can I get reputable inspections done?

[Mr.Bill347]

Check the weight and diameter first. Thus is usual of a tell. Then post some good clear pictures of some of them for everyone to see. You’ll get a quick opinion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_dollar

[RWB]

If you post sharp photos of a couple of the coins, members will be glad to offer their thoughts.

[JKK]

While you should definitely be alert, it's also quite possible they're authentic. During the war, one of the essential supplies the Allies could send to guerrillas in the PI was bullion. People hoarding stuff wouldn't part with it for paper money, but pull out real silver and one would be amazed how much supply was nearby (or could be liberated from the occupiers). I do not know in exactly what form we sent bullion to the various G bands, but a pile of Morgans certainly seems within logical reason--more so because, as a past colony (and still somewhat), it'd be a form of silver the Filipinos knew, just as Americans in the old West were well familiar with Mexican pieces of eight.

[Silky]

9 hours ago, JKK said:

While you should definitely be alert, it's also quite possible they're authentic. During the war, one of the essential supplies the Allies could send to guerrillas in the PI was bullion. People hoarding stuff wouldn't part with it for paper money, but pull out real silver and one would be amazed how much supply was nearby (or could be liberated from the occupiers). I do not know in exactly what form we sent bullion to the various G bands, but a pile of Morgans certainly seems within logical reason--more so because, as a past colony (and still somewhat), it'd be a form of silver the Filipinos knew, just as Americans in the old West were well familiar with Mexican pieces of eight.

Yeah, that's what worries me. I have a variety of coins, draped bust,flowing hair,liberty and peace dollars. I am convinced some are authentic. I've got one especially convincing coin, I will post pictures of the coins I have. I would welcome someone else to see them.

[RWB]

10 hours ago, JKK said:

While you should definitely be alert, it's also quite possible they're authentic. During the war, one of the essential supplies the Allies could send to guerrillas in the PI was bullion. People hoarding stuff wouldn't part with it for paper money, but pull out real silver and one would be amazed how much supply was nearby (or could be liberated from the occupiers). I do not know in exactly what form we sent bullion to the various G bands, but a pile of Morgans certainly seems within logical reason--more so because, as a past colony (and still somewhat), it'd be a form of silver the Filipinos knew, just as Americans in the old West were well familiar with Mexican pieces of eight.

The US did not use domestic US coins for support of partisans - that would have meant immediate death if captured. The Army, OSS, and State Dept used silver and gold coins from local countries or that were in international circulation. Gold coins included sovereigns, Napoleons, Swiss and Italian -- even a few Canadian. Never US gold coins - they were not a normal part of pe-war exchange.

PS: Silver bullion was useless to locals. In the Philippines pre-war coins were used along with counterfeit Japanese occupation currency, and penicillin. If you want more information on recovery of Philippine coins, see Journal of Numismatic Research, Issue #3. Here's a short review from E-sylum of this section of the publication:

Silver Divers of Corregidor
World War II: May to November 1942

After all the gold and some of the Philippine silver was smuggled out on the Trout a large quantity of silver coins remained. Just before the Philippine island of Corregidor fell to the Japanese, these silver coins were dumped in Manila Bay. It was hoped that the coins could thus be hidden from the invaders. The Japanese soon learned the location and conscripted American Navy divers to bring the money to the surface. This fascinating story of bravery and determination was unknown during the war and received little public attention afterward. It was not until one of the divers, Robert C. Sheats, published his private memento of captivity, One Man's War: Diving as a Guest of the Emperor, that the story gained much-deserved attention.

Edited April 1, 2021 by RWB

[Silky]

I visited a website, Spruce Crafts for a list of arrest silver dollar coins. If their top 15 list, I have 3 coins that are illustrated and described. I would gladly email pictures of my coins if someone can provide me an email address. I don't know how to send them otherwise. I would welcome a another opinion based on your visual inspection. Thanks! I am at silky68@yahoo.com

[RWB]

9 hours ago, Silky said:

arrest silver dollar coins

What are these...?

[Moxie15]

On 3/31/2021 at 12:57 PM, JKK said:

, but pull out real silver and one would be amazed how much supply was nearby (or could be liberated from the occupiers). 

This is a common misconception. Precious metals have little value in an occupation zone. The people trying to survive do not need or want silver and gold and they are not readily exchangeable unless the receiver has some serious connections and ease of movement. To those who are unable to leave the occupation zone a pound of coffee or a fifth of gin is far more valuable than an ounce of silver.

[Silky]

On 4/2/2021 at 11:20 PM, RWB said:

What are these...?

True. But I read the early mints were imprecise. So I question how accurate the weights and measures really were until about 1797. U.S. Mint article made statement about inaccurate coinage.

[Oldhoopster]

@Silky has others have said, please post clear pics on this thread.  Also, accurate weights would help.  There are a number of very knowledgeable collectors and numismatic researchers who can help if you provide pics and weights.

If you haven't done so, check the coins with a magnet.  Many earlier Chinese fakes are magnetic.

[Silky]

1 hour ago, Oldhoopster said:

@Silky has others have said, please post clear pics on this thread.  Also, accurate weights would help.  There are a number of very knowledgeable collectors and numismatic researchers who can help if you provide pics and weights.

If you haven't done so, check the coins with a magnet.  Many earlier Chinese fakes are magnetic.

Thanks for the info. I'm working on the weights and measures. What kind of magnet? I'll send pictures tomorrow. 

[Silky]

1 hour ago, Oldhoopster said:

@Silky has others have said, please post clear pics on this thread.  Also, accurate weights would help.  There are a number of very knowledgeable collectors and numismatic researchers who can help if you provide pics and weights.

If you haven't done so, check the coins with a magnet.  Many earlier Chinese fakes are magnetic.

Should they stick to the magnet?

[Greenstang]

“Should they stick to the magnet?”

If they do they are counterfeit. Silver is non magnetic.

[Silky]

15 minutes ago, Greenstang said:

“Should they stick to the magnet?”

If they do they are counterfeit. Silver is non magnetic.

Thanks for the info. I'm one step closer. None of my 3 coins stick! #1 is a 1794 flowing hair - #2 is a 1804 draped bust and the 3rd coin I have is a 1884 trade dollar! I am working on getting the weights and measures. I'll send pictures tomorrow.

[Oldhoopster]

@silky those are some extremely rare coins.  I hate to sound negative, but the chances of finding any one of them would be lottery winning odds..  Finding all 3???  In a market in the Philippines?   There is practically no chance of them being authentic.  Sorry for the bad news

 

[RWB]

4 hours ago, Silky said:

Thanks for the info. I'm one step closer. None of my 3 coins stick! #1 is a 1794 flowing hair - #2 is a 1804 draped bust and the 3rd coin I have is a 1884 trade dollar! I am working on getting the weights and measures. I'll send pictures tomorrow.

As Oldhoopster noted, these are very likely counterfeits....especially when all three are found together....in the wilds of Philippines. Photos might quickly dispel any doubt.

[JKK]

On 4/2/2021 at 8:53 AM, Moxie15 said:

This is a common misconception. Precious metals have little value in an occupation zone. The people trying to survive do not need or want silver and gold and they are not readily exchangeable unless the receiver has some serious connections and ease of movement. To those who are unable to leave the occupation zone a pound of coffee or a fifth of gin is far more valuable than an ounce of silver.

My misconception comes from reading about guerrillas in the Philippines.

Edited April 4, 2021 by JKK

[Silky]

11 hours ago, Oldhoopster said:

@silky those are some extremely rare coins.  I hate to sound negative, but the chances of finding any one of them would be lottery winning odds..  Finding all 3???  In a market in the Philippines?   There is practically no chance of them being authentic.  Sorry for the bad news

 

Actually, I got them from a local fishermen who first tried to sell some hand made jewelry which I had no interest in. I was down on the beach when he approached me with a number of coins. Not having any knowledge of rare coins, I randomly selected some of the oldest coins as souvenirs. That was 3 years ago. I just put them in a drawer and forgot about them.

[Just Bob]

23 hours ago, Silky said:

#1 is a 1794 flowing hair - #2 is a 1804 draped bust and the 3rd coin I have is a 1884 trade dollar! 

I am going to go out on a limb here, and just go ahead and say that all three of these coins are fake. The chance of any one of them being real is next to nothing, and the chance that all of them are real is 0.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Just Bob

[RWB]

11 hours ago, Silky said:

I just put them in a drawer and forgot about them.

That's a good place for them; but, add a note about them being counterfeits and where/when you bought them.

[Just Bob]

Apparently, the OP decided this was not worth pursuing further. Shame. I was looking forward to seeing the pictures.

[J P M]

On 4/4/2021 at 10:50 PM, Silky said:

Actually, I got them from a local fishermen who first tried to sell some hand made jewelry which I had no interest in. I was down on the beach when he approached me with a number of coins. Not having any knowledge of rare coins, I randomly selected some of the oldest coins as souvenirs. That was 3 years ago. I just put them in a drawer and forgot about them.

The whole thing smells fishy.  

[Conder101]

He and I exchanged several private messages about the in  early april and he did include images.  ALL of the coins he showed me were clearly fakes.