To Grade or not to Grade
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I went to the bank and did my weekly coin run. I ended up with this unopened roll of 2000 D Sacagawea dollars.If they came back graded high, like MS67, MS68 or MS69, they could be worth some serious coin. As far as the NGC or PCGS registry, there is NO MS70 2000 D Sacagawea on graded record. Should I take the gamble and grade the inside coins? I know the enders are not worth grading, but what's inside hasn't been touched in 21 years. Any thoughts?

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Edited by pancakez1981
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Two things to keep in mind on top of these have low collector appeal:

1. Just because they are rolled, even if not circulated, doesn’t mean they will necessarily grade better than low/mid MS. These coins take a beating after striking and in the bags. Possible some grade high but by no means a guarantee. 
 

2. Just because this is rolled doesn’t mean it hasn’t been circulated. They re roll coins all the time for banks. 
 

You can carefully open the roll and take a look. No prize for it still being in the roll so you can inspect them. You lose nothing if you are careful. 

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I have thirty rolls of those that are completely uncirculated, opened a few rolls to check. Worth about $1 each even in pristine condition🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

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[Theoretically possible, but having immersed myself in the writings and audible musings of VKurtB, a long-time collector with an intimate working knowledge of this very subject, I am inclined to believe finding an example at the highest grades possible is highly unlikely on the circulation as opposed to numismatic line.

To my knowledge, I believe VKurtB is the only member with the gumption to question why proof coins are being graded at all.

And the inherent risk of experiencing the gut-wrenching agony of defeat on the roulette table of opinions cannot ever justify the sum total of all the incidental expenses involved.]  

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On 3/24/2021 at 2:36 PM, pancakez1981 said:

. How do I tell the difference?

the Millennium edition is burnished

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Sometimes you just want one for the novelty, take the roll to the bank and then buy a graded one and save money in the process. For instance, I just bought a 1979 S proof Dcam pr69 Susan B Anthony NGC for $19. Why? I didn’t have one!

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39 minutes ago, Mr.Bill347 said:

Sometimes you just want one for the novelty, take the roll to the bank and then buy a graded one and save money in the process. For instance, I just bought a 1979 S proof Dcam pr69 Susan B Anthony NGC for $19. Why? I didn’t have one!

0E8CFDB4-898C-4045-8B10-861509DA2BF2.jpeg

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I should be one to talk... Have to admit I became totally enamored of a coin from Venezuela for no particular reason that I can recall, outbid 30 to 40 other presumably serious collectors for something I did not need and no longer want.  Your coin is special for a number of reasons beginning with the high grade.  Your point is well taken.  I apologize for the over-the-top response.

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QA, if you don’t mind me using that, (I can’t type Latin). Funny story, I sent five coins to grading, one just for snicks. It was a 2000p Sacagawea first day cover that I had for 21 years complete with postage stamps etc. NGC charged me , posted the status as graded and shipped, but no grade? So I opened the package, and it came back to me just as I sent it. 
after contacting support a couple times about it, NGC agreed to ship it back at their expense, two day air, and indicated they should have slabbed it and instructed me how to resubmit with detailed instructions. I haven’t seen it show up in submission, but assume since they agreed to slab it, that they will. At the end, I will have a pretty worthless MS. But it will be the only one I have. I’ll post when I finally get it back.

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Last year I fell in love with this 1965 Washington Quarter. Thought for sure it would be graded MS65 or better. Nope, it was returned no grade as I had marked MS minimum grade on the sub form. I was confused and sent it back asking for a minimum grade. It was graded XF45. I have kept that coin to remind me of that newbie mistake.

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2 hours ago, Mr.Bill347 said:

Sometimes you just want one for the novelty, take the roll to the bank and then buy a graded one and save money in the process. For instance, I just bought a 1979 S proof Dcam pr69 Susan B Anthony NGC for $19. Why? I didn’t have one!

0E8CFDB4-898C-4045-8B10-861509DA2BF2.jpeg

0836B93E-A7F5-40C9-BC4C-C60FA8E54DEA.jpeg

I should be one to talk... Have to admit I became totally enamored of a coin from Venezuela for no particular reason that I can recall, outbid 30 to 40 other presumably serious collectors for something I did not need and no longer want.  Your coin is special for a number of reasons beginning with the high grade.  Your point is well taken.  I apologize for the over-the-top response.

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8 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

To my knowledge, I believe VKurtB is the only member with the gumption to question why proof coins are being graded at all.

He isn't the only one.  And there are a lot of other coins I question why they would be graded.

 

7 hours ago, JT2 said:

the Millennium edition is burnished

And they only came in a set directly from the Mint.

Your 2000 D Sacs would have to come back at least MS-68 to make it worthwhile.  Any one have a pop report on how many 2000 D MS-68 or better they have graded?

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56 minutes ago, Conder101 said:

Any one have a pop report on how many 2000 D MS-68 or better they have graded?

395 MS68 Value $75

2 MS69 Value $10,000

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7 minutes ago, Conder101 said:

So they mad 519 million of them, and so far after 20 years there are 397 MS68 or better. (I should have asked for the 67's as well) So one out of 1.3 million odds.  Or about 1 out of every 52,000 rolls.

Only 1 @MS67+ (value $30ea.)

1,832  @MS67 (value $24ea.)

If I had any that would possibly grade out at MS67 or higher, i would be tempted to get them graded. 

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On 3/26/2021 at 2:57 AM, Modwriter said:

If I had any that would possibly grade out at MS67 or higher, i would be tempted to get them graded.

At 67 or 67+ they wouldn't justify the cost of grading

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52 minutes ago, Conder101 said:

At 67 or 67+ they wouldn't justify the cost of grading

Thanks Conder. The possibility of perhaps a 68 or 69 grade would would drive me crazy. Id have to send it in. lol

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1 hour ago, J P Mashoke said:

I still look every day... Ya never know...LoL

Maybe it's me; maybe I'm the problem.  What is the definition of UNCIRCULATED now, in 2021.  Since when did coins never released into circulation, the very definition of Uncirculated, suddenly become something that by definition they are not -- and can never be.

It's too bad VKurtB is busy battling tropical storms and tornados because I know he knows the answer.

Edited by Quintus Arrius
Misspelling
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2 hours ago, Conder101 said:

At 67 or 67+ they wouldn't justify the cost ...

That appears to be the sad, sorry truth -- and I for one politely decline to quibble with a virtual walking encyclopedia on coins. Conder is a contender!

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16 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Maybe it's me; maybe I'm the problem.  What is the definition of UNCIRCULATED now, in 2021.  Since when did coins never released into circulation, the very definition of Uncirculated, suddenly become something that by definition they are not -- and can never be.

It's too bad VKurtB is busy battling tropical storms and tornados because I know he knows the answer.

As mentioned in another thread

Uncirculated = No visible wear

 

 

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13 hours ago, J P Mashoke said:

I still look every day... Ya never know...LoL

This is what I love about roll hunting where I live, Look at color of the coins in this roll I got from the bank yesterday. Every one is a Wheatie this is the stuff that makes it fun.

I will let you know if I find any keepers in my Cherry pickers Post  

wheaties.jpg

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They're all keepers in my book. And the fact you got them now, some 60 years after they were made is nothing less than extraordinary. If an ordinary Lincoln costs two cents to make with only a smidgen of cosmetic copper, you can just imagine what these bad boys are worth -- and we haven't even factored in their potential numismatic worth.

This is what a coin shortage does: it has all manner of coins coming out of drawers and jars.  This is the best part of coin collecting: The Hunt. Way I see it, you were a winner before you looked at the very first date. Good for you!

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17 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Maybe it's me; maybe I'm the problem.  What is the definition of UNCIRCULATED now, in 2021.  Since when did coins never released into circulation, the very definition of Uncirculated, suddenly become something that by definition they are not -- and can never be.

It's too bad VKurtB is busy battling tropical storms and tornados because I know he knows the answer.

Found this at the Sheldon Coin Grading wikipedia:

  1. Even longtime coin collectors sometimes do not understand the difference between uncirculated (mint state) and circulated coins. The key distinction is that circulated coins show signs of wear. In this regard, it may prove helpful to review the definition of wear from the Oxford English Dictionary: wear n. - "The process or condition of being worn or gradually reduced in bulk or impaired in quality by continued use, friction, attrition, exposure to atmospheric or other natural destructive agencies; loss or diminution of substance or deterioration of quality due to these causes." [example quotation:] "This Scarcity will be farther increased by the Wear of Silver Coins, which has lessened their Weights considerably."
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1 hour ago, Modwriter said:

Found this at the Sheldon Coin Grading wikipedia:

  1. Even longtime coin collectors sometimes do not understand the difference between uncirculated (mint state) and circulated coins. The key distinction is that circulated coins show signs of wear. In this regard, it may prove helpful to review the definition of wear from the Oxford English Dictionary: wear n. - "The process or condition of being worn or gradually reduced in bulk or impaired in quality by continued use, friction, attrition, exposure to atmospheric or other natural destructive agencies; loss or diminution of substance or deterioration of quality due to these causes." [example quotation:] "This Scarcity will be farther increased by the Wear of Silver Coins, which has lessened their Weights considerably."

Okay, so herewith the $60,000 question:  if not "wear," however defined and by whom, what is it that distinguishes a Mint State 60 from all the other Mint State designations, and does wear become a factor in coins only adjudged AU-59, and under?

I sense there are graders lurking out there muttering, "you wouldn't understand," but that's the point. Extraordinary exceptions are made all the time -- chop-marks on Trade Dollars, for example -- as well as nonsense I refuse to accept, such as technical vs. market grading. A formal grade should be just that accompanied by symbols running the gamut from those denoting schmutz to examples exhibiting exceptional eye appeal.

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Correct wear starts factoring in at AU and down. As far as the difference in MS grades several things come into play such as strike, marks/blemishes, luster, and eye appeal. Morgan dollars are a great example. Many of them are severely bag marked and grade low MS. As the marks reduce and/or are in less focal areas the grade increases. 
 

The ANA grading standards is a good reference book to study on this. 

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