American Silver Eagles: certified but ungraded ? 0

[LDH Coins & Memorabilia]

I am new to collecting and would appreciate some questions which may be dumb LOL. I am fascinated with ASE's and I have a MS 69 set and would like to work on a MS 70 set but I saw a NGC certified BU coin without a grade ? Does grading companies certify individual coins without grade ? I know they certify uncirculated rolls but I was unaware of individual coins. Also I notice that graded proof coins are sometimes less book value than same graded coins from same year , but does proof coins grade at 65 or better as any other UNC ? Thanx for anyones help

Darryl

[Lem E]

Sometimes when a bulk submission is sent in, the submitter can request that if a coin doesn't get a high grade like 69 or 70, it gets slabbed as GEM UNCIRCULATED, or not slabbed at all. 

[Mr.Bill347]

Yea you me and 10,000,000 other people. I do love them though. I have a number of them varying in value fro $50 up. The newest ones don’t have a value listed but it’s easy to find that based on grading. Time there’s not a whole lot of visual difference between ms69 and ms70. They just minted the last “w” mint 2021 ASE with a strict limit of 344,000. It sold out in 8 minutes as a proof. I feel very lucky getting this one and will get it graded. Graded ones are already over $200 from dealers.

[GoldFinger1969]

My understanding is that both Proof and Business Strikes (regular coins) can have "Gem Uncirculated" or a similar designation without a number affixed.  I think I have both.

[Sharann]

Well y'all totally lost me on the designations, slabs, etc. but it made me think of a question. I saw a coin, I think that very one, at a friend's house yesterday. It was inside a clear, circular plastic container, as I have seen coins before. There was also, a silver Olympics dollar, I think it said dollar anyway, in the same type of container. I don't know what the year was on it. I could tell though, that they had probably never been out of their armor, so to speak. Apparently this is where I can ask about the Silver Eagle, but does anyone know about the silver Olympic coin? 

Everytime I go to a different friend's house I make them let me look at their coins. If they are not really valuable (which I know is a relative term) then I bring them home to see what I can see about them and return them with a little factual history I find. I was wary of bringing those home, in case of a wreck or some unfortunate occurrence, without knowing their value. Just a ballpark figure... A large ballpark at that. I don't want to have more in my truck than my insurance will cover. Rather be safe than sorry any day. ❤️

[GoldFinger1969]

33 minutes ago, Sharann said:

Well y'all totally lost me on the designations, slabs, etc.

Sharann, when coins are submitted to the TPGs, they get put in the plastic slab and given a grade.  It's on the Sheldon Scale of 1-70.  Mint State is 60-70, About Uncirculated is 50-58, etc.  Sometimes for modern coins in a large, bulk submission (hundreds or thousands of coins) they pay less for a GEM MINT designation which corresponds to about an MS-65 designation.

It might be difficult to see the differences on the smaller coins you collect.  Check out examples of grades (esp. high-def pics) for Morgan Silver Dollars and/or Saint-Gaudens gold coins.  Or modern gold and silver coins like above.

36 minutes ago, Sharann said:

There was also, a silver Olympics dollar, I think it said dollar anyway, in the same type of container. I don't know what the year was on it. I could tell though, that they had probably never been out of their armor, so to speak. Apparently this is where I can ask about the Silver Eagle, but does anyone know about the silver Olympic coin? 

You can buy those from a coin supply website or LCS (Local Coin Shop) and put the coin inside.  Sometimes the plastic circulars come from the mint when you buy them.

The Silver coin may have been an official dollar coin struck for the Olympics or it may have been a non-legal tender commemorative.  Not sure.

 

[Sharann]

13 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Sharann, when coins are submitted to the TPGs, they get put in the plastic slab and given a grade.  It's on the Sheldon Scale of 1-70.  Mint State is 60-70, About Uncirculated is 50-58, etc.  Sometimes for modern coins in a large, bulk submission (hundreds or thousands of coins) they pay less for a GEM MINT designation which corresponds to about an MS-65 designation.

It might be difficult to see the differences on the smaller coins you collect.  Check out examples of grades (esp. high-def pics) for Morgan Silver Dollars and/or Saint-Gaudens gold coins.  Or modern gold and silver coins like above.

You can buy those from a coin supply website or LCS (Local Coin Shop) and put the coin inside.  Sometimes the plastic circulars come from the mint when you buy them.

The Silver coin may have been an official dollar coin struck for the Olympics or it may have been a non-legal tender commemorative.  Not sure.

 

Thank you for explaining it. I haven't had it explained the same way more than once but each time absord more and more and piece together what's told differently. I do have a couple of questions though, I would like to ask when you have time. 

[GoldFinger1969]

17 minutes ago, Sharann said:

Thank you for explaining it. I haven't had it explained the same way more than once but each time absord more and more and piece together what's told differently. I do have a couple of questions though, I would like to ask when you have time. 

Sure, ask away....don't forget that Google can be your best friend if you can't find the relevant thread here.  YouTube vidoes might also be good.  This website is great and many of us also spend time over at CT.

If you just started out, there's alot to learn and absorb.  A year from now -- heck, 3 months from now -- you'll be infinitely more knowledgeable, so don't worry.   If you are going to concentrate on a particular coin type, I would recommend getting a beginners or Official Guide Book for that particular type.  For instance, I got the Whitman "Red Book" GUIDE BOOK for both Morgan Silver Dollars and Double Eagles.

[GoldFinger1969]

For instance, here's their book on pennies:

https://www.coinsupplyexpress.com/whitman-publishing-guide-book-of-lincoln-cents-3rd-edition-783034?feed=Froogle&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-OeBBhDiARIsADyBcE6DvgbdbqHcrExIC5xUOM0f6zVvZGnfXYqv89pTMy58g8rhd0KHlk8aAnTbEALw_wcB

I just used that link because it had the biggest picture....haven't read that book, but David Bowers is one of the greatest living numismatists and most prolific authors.  Whitman has lots of "Official" books on different coins.  They are good for beginners (at least mine were ).  Check out reviews on various websites, including Amazon for more DD (due dilligence). 

[RWB]

Sharann:

Let's go back to basics on the "grading" companies, like NGC or PCGS or ANACS, whose names get tossed around.

First, the three most widely accepted and trusted companies are Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC), Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) and ANACS (long ago the letters stood for American Numismatic Association Certification Service, but now the letters are the name).

Second, the origin of all of these was an increase in counterfeit and altered coins in the US coin hobby market. ANA began a service to examine and authenticate coins, then added an assessment of coin condition - or "grade" - based on a set of standards developed and published by ANA.

Third, NGC, PCGS and some other businesses began doing much the same thing, but with greater emphasis on grading than authentication. This period also coincided with a large speculative increase in prices as several stock broker companies tried to form "Rare Coin Mutual Funds" using coins graded by the three major entities. Incresing emphasis was placed on the idea that grading could be so consistent and reliable, that people could buy rare coins without seeing the coins. The entire "coin fund" concept collapsed, but the independent "grading" concept remained viable with collectors. Auction companies and dealers also liked the idea of independent grading (and authentication) because it took away nearly all their responsibility for knowing details of authentication and grading.

Fourth, the "Third Party Graders" (TPGs) early on began deviating from the ANA Standards, and extending from a relatively clear, compact structure to the present plethora of grades, plus signs, smiley faces, stars, buzzards and whatever. Hence, the ease with which  even the "grade" stated on a TOG slab, might not be the same as it was 20 years ago -- or last week.

Maybe this will help a little - it is a confused and contradictory business with no agreed on standards and no empirical measurement/assessment of even the most simple of coin surface characteristics.

[Hoghead515]

I feel very lucky to have got one of the 2020 v75 eagles. Like to never got thru. Missed out on the 2021 eagles. The electric went out and the wifi was down. The local cell tower was also down. 

[GoldFinger1969]

Roger (RWB) makes a bunch of excellent points, Sharann.  Understand that even with an "expert" giving a coin a grade it can be WRONG.  So that $50 penny you thought was worth at least that turns out to be from a time period when grading standards were "looser" and then when you goto sell it instead of getting the then-FMV (Fair Market Value) of $60 you find out a dealer will only pay you $35 because he thinks it was overgraded in the first place.

OK, so you lost $15 or so plus lost profits.  No huge thing.  But now try that on a coin costing hundreds of dollars...or thousands.  I was reading the other night where a coin was sold by Legends Numismatics (LM, a very high-end dealer and auction house) for $6,500 or so and then got re-sold on Great Collections (GC) a few months later for UNDER $2,000.  WTH ???!!!?

I forgot the coin but the population went up by 1 in the rare grade it had....and then you just had fewer bidders at a site (GC) that doesn't always attract the Big $$$ buyers that LM or HA bring to the table.  Boom !!  Someone bought high and sold low.  It's supposed to be the other way around. 

[RWB]

They are government issued silver bullion pieces. So long as they are authentic and unaltered (...there are fakes and altered pieces made in China and Colorado), why would you waste most of their value on "grading?"

[Mr.Bill347]

Sharron the answer to the last post is “you wouldn’t and shouldn’t “ it will cost you $50 plus the cost of membership to find out. I know because I bought a counterfeit Chinese Morgan, thought it was good sent it in, paid too much fir heading and it was retuned as not genuine! You can purchase plastic coin slabs for about $2each so I put it in a slab, will keep it as a bad reminder and warn everybody I can about fake coins. Didn’t have a scale or caliper at the time just eye appeal (not enough)!

[LDH Coins & Memorabilia]

Thanx for all the help. One last “newbie” question: Why are proofs from late 90’s / early 2000’s so much cheaper than other MS similar grades ASE’s ? 

[GoldFinger1969]

17 hours ago, ldhall said:

Thanx for all the help. One last “newbie” question: Why are proofs from late 90’s / early 2000’s so much cheaper than other MS similar grades ASE’s ? 

You mean from the last few years ?  Probably just people bidding higher for the "newness" factor or even cool labels.