morgan CC dollars PL versus DPL versus DMPL and older slabs 0

[dollarfan]

hello again,  i was wondering how NGC and PCGS determine whether a coin s PL, DPL or DMPL   Also, were the standards the same for OGH (old green holder or other old school holders) as they are now.  I have been working on a CC morgan subset of common date (78,80,81,82,83,84,85,90 and 91)  my goal is every date listed in the conditions of 62, 62+, 63, 63+, 64, 64+) and further a PL and either DPL or DMPL of the year for each and every grade.  It has been a blast so far putting it together.  But also very challenging as i am only interested in blast white, cac worthy type specimens.  there are 162 different grade/designations for these dates.  so far i have 51 and many of them are OGH's.  some of the PL ones look much more DPL as compared to certified DPLs.  some of the prices rise rapidly around 64 grades for DPL versus PL and some dates even at MS63 grade.   SO,  has anyone ever resubmitted and gotten a PL upgraded to DPL from an older slab?  any info on how they decide would be much appreciated thanks!

[GoldFinger1969]

3 hours ago, dollarfan said:

hello again,  i was wondering how NGC and PCGS determine whether a coin s PL, DPL or DMPL  

I'm not an expert on these so hopefully a vet will chime in.  But here's my best effort.....

They actually look to see reflections from a certain distance (I forget how many inches, you can goto the websites or threads here to see the standard).  I believe that PL is some reflectivity on one or both sides of the coin.  DPL (Deep Proof-Like) is NGC's classification and DMPL (Deep Mirror Proof-Like) is PCGS's for full-relectivity and dark fields.

3 hours ago, dollarfan said:

I have been working on a CC morgan subset of common date (78,80,81,82,83,84,85,90 and 91)  my goal is every date listed in the conditions of 62, 62+, 63, 63+, 64, 64+) and further a PL and either DPL or DMPL of the year for each and every grade.  It has been a blast so far putting it together.  But also very challenging as i am only interested in blast white, cac worthy type specimens.  there are 162 different grade/designations for these dates.  so far i have 51 and many of them are OGH's.  some of the PL ones look much more DPL as compared to certified DPLs.  

Impressive.....that's a high-quality set for sure.  Some of the Morgan vets here will hopefully chime in, if not, MorganDude and others over at CT can offer some expertise.

3 hours ago, dollarfan said:

Also, were the standards the same for OGH (old green holder or other old school holders) as they are now. 

No, if you go by the Hall of Holders over at PCGS the OGH were from 1993-1998.  Most people would probably say that grading standards really loosened after 2000, closer to 2004.  But even the OGH years may have been a bit looser than the 1st and 2nd years of the TPGs before the 1989 Coin Bubble.

3 hours ago, dollarfan said:

some of the prices rise rapidly around 64 grades for DPL versus PL and some dates even at MS63 grade.   SO,  has anyone ever resubmitted and gotten a PL upgraded to DPL from an older slab?  any info on how they decide would be much appreciated thanks!

We may have some vets here on Morgans and/or ex-graders.  Hopefully, they chime in.

[RWB]

There are no empirical standards for "proof-like" surface coins. All the designations are equally correct - or incorrect - or without meaning.

[Coinbuf]

In my limited experience with PL and DMPL Morgans the TPG services have been very inconsistent with this throughout the years.   There are some guidelines that each service has posted but as an outsider looking in it seems more like a lot of personal interpretation than any absolute hard standard.   Years ago a dealer gave me a strip of paper that has writing on it spaced out in intervals, the idea is that you place the coin at the edge of the paper and if you can clearly read the letters PL in the reflection of the fields then the coin was at least PL.  Same idea just further away from the coin for DMPL, this seems to be where the personal interpretation comes into play.   I was told that this was the way ANACS did it back in the old small holder days but I don't know if that is true or not or if that is how its done in the grading room today.   As to the old holders that is a complete hit or miss but as a general blanket statement unless the coins/holders are coming from a collection that has been held for a very long time the chances are high that most coins in PL or DMPL in old holders are still there for a reason.   I think that your chances of getting an upgrade from PL to DMPL are slim but most certainly it has happened before, again chances for this are likely better if the coins have been off the market (stored correctly) for over twenty years or more.   There are lots of old holders that are bought/sold everyday, again 99% of the time those coins are still in those holders for a reason.

[Alex in PA.]

I'm not a fan of that designation being old and from a time long past.  I collect Carson City coins and have only one PL that's an 1865 CC Morgan MS65 PL VAM 6.  Bought it because I couldn't find one at the time.

[RWB]

2 hours ago, Alex in PA. said:

I'm not a fan of that designation being old and from a time long past.  I collect Carson City coins and have only one PL that's an 1865 CC Morgan MS65 PL VAM 6.  Bought it because I couldn't find one at the time.

That's a really rare coin, esp in PL.....They were made only at the Canton China Mint that year.

[Joydeep]

4 hours ago, Alex in PA. said:

I'm not a fan of that designation being old and from a time long past.  I collect Carson City coins and have only one PL that's an 1865 CC Morgan MS65 PL VAM 6.  Bought it because I couldn't find one at the time.

Alex from P.A was that a typo or are you serious ? BRUH

Edited February 27, 2021 by Joydeep

[GoldFinger1969]

4 hours ago, Alex in PA. said:

I collect Carson City coins and have only one PL that's an 1865 CC Morgan MS65 PL VAM 6.

1865 ????

[RWB]

1 hour ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

1865 ????

Authentic fake "1865 CC" Morgan dollars do not have "? ? ? ?" in the dates.