Coin Doctor?
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34 posts in this topic

The first photo is a raw 1902 coin that sold on eBay on 12/4/20. 

The second photo is the same 1902 coin sold on eBay 12/27/20 with a little color added.

The coin in the NGC holder with a 1907 graded MS63 RB is currently for sale on eBay by the seller that bought the raw coin and sold the raw coin with color added. The eBay seller is selling a number of NGC graded coins that have the same toning look. 

Is the NGC coin AT?  If the coin is AT, should NGC look into the submitter of the 1907?   

 

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I would say that you did a good job of sleuthing, that does indeed appear to be the same coin.  Unfortunately that color is somewhat easy to make and in general both of the major TPG's will slab coins that look like that often.   It would be nice if NGC would look into this submitter but only NGC can answer the question of will they.

Edited by Coinbuf
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17 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Is IT the same coin ?  I see that indentation in the left cheekbone in the toned coin and I don't see that in the 1st coin.

I see it. The toning makes it look more pronounced, but if you look closely, you should see the basic indentation. I think that's another notable ding above it, at the temple, that shows more clearly in both pics. I do not reckon that's part of the design.

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7 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Is IT the same coin ?  I see that indentation in the left cheekbone in the toned coin and I don't see that in the 1st coin.

There are plenty of other matches. Among others, look at the marks on the rim.

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21 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

There are plenty of other matches. Among others, look at the marks on the rim.

I noticed that also. If u look really close you can see them all

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On 1/2/2021 at 7:06 PM, gmarguli said:

Are you saying that this "MS 70" can turn some coppers blue? :whatthe:

It doesn't do it to all of them, but it IS known for doing that.

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7 hours ago, Conder101 said:

It doesn't do it to all of them, but it IS known for doing that.

Most blue cents you see are doctored. 

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On 1/1/2021 at 10:32 AM, physics-fan3.14 said:

This has been treated with a substance called "MS-70." 

It is highly controversial, and a quick search of this site or of google should show you why. 

However, coins with this look are very often slabbed, so it is no surprise. 

This was my initial impression as well.

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11 hours ago, lehigh96 said:

This was my initial impression as well.

Not mine.  As the Great Zadok 🇿🇦 once noted, in a post festooned with an imaginary moot point, this point was well settled elsewhere.

Not MS-70 nor my inadvisable WD-40, but I-53.  I may have paid 3x what the average collector paid for their 2021-D Morgan, but when I get it (if I get it this summer or fall) it will be destined to sit in a glass tumbler half-filled with I-53 at room temperature for one hundred thirty-seven continuous hours, removed, and my findings reported to both @Just Bob@VKurtB and whomever else may be interested.  I will await explicit instructions as to the final disposition of the 2021-S Morgan I have no intention of molesting/mishandling/manhandling from my cousin Vinny when I get it. @Morpheus1967 was right.  I do have the patience of a Saint as noted on another thread. Man, Iove this place!

Edited by Quintus Arrius
Reigning in disparate streams of conscoiusness.
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On 1/1/2021 at 7:57 PM, RWB said:

"Coin Dr." "Con Dr." or "Quack" - all the same dishonest people.

EBay used to be famous for these people.  They ruined a lot of Morgan Dollars by 'cooking' (Artificial Toning) them.  Many nice coins were ruined and many of those AT coins were bought only to receive the dreaded 'Questionable Color' designation.  I wonder what happened to all those AT coins???    :gossip:

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2 hours ago, Alex in PA. said:

EBay used to be famous for these people.  They ruined a lot of Morgan Dollars by 'cooking' (Artificial Toning) them.  Many nice coins were ruined and many of those AT coins were bought only to receive the dreaded 'Questionable Color' designation.  I wonder what happened to all those AT coins???    :gossip:

They can be “fixed” with my Eastman Kodak silver coin dip. (A little darkroom rat play on words.)

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4 hours ago, Alex in PA. said:

EBay used to be famous for these people.  They ruined a lot of Morgan Dollars by 'cooking' (Artificial Toning) them.  Many nice coins were ruined and many of those AT coins were bought only to receive the dreaded 'Questionable Color' designation.  I wonder what happened to all those AT coins???    :gossip:

Several posters here and elsewhere have tracked specific coins. Some end up in approved holders, others get stripped and retoned, some are ruined. It is all about greed, dishonesty and lies.

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7 minutes ago, RWB said:

Several posters here and elsewhere have tracked specific coins. Some end up in approved holders, others get stripped and retoned, some are ruined. It is all about greed, dishonesty and lies.

Absolutely 100% agree with you Roger except for the part "some are ruined".  I believe they were all ruined and I hope those so called 'Coin Doctors' choked on their money.    :slapfight:

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They are among those "doctors" who take a "Hypocritic Oath."

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2 hours ago, VKurtB said:

They can be “fixed” with my Eastman Kodak silver coin dip. (A little darkroom rat play on words.)

He likely means sodium thiosulfate in an acid solution.

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3 hours ago, RWB said:

He likely means sodium thiosulfate in an acid solution.

No, thiourea and citric acid. On page 2323 (Volume 13) of the Encyclopedia of Practical Photography. 

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I don't see how anyone could do that to a very old piece of history like that. They are bound to be off in the head. Very sad to be greedy enough to ruin a very old and nice coin just to get a few dollars out of it. My opinion they are just as bad as counterfeiters. 

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2 hours ago, VKurtB said:

No, thiourea and citric acid. On page 2323 (Volume 13) of the Encyclopedia of Practical Photography. 

Volume, chapter and verse!  Is it just me or is there anyone else left feeling you are speaking from personal experience? 🤔

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2 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Volume, chapter and verse!  Is it just me or is there anyone else left feeling you are speaking from personal experience? 🤔

First column, just under half way down. 

Edited by VKurtB
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4 hours ago, Hoghead515 said:

I don't see how anyone could do that to a very old piece of history like that. They are bound to be off in the head. Very sad to be greedy enough to ruin a very old and nice coin just to get a few dollars out of it. My opinion they are just as bad as counterfeiters. 

They are, and there are gazillions of such unethical persons in this hobby. Untold numbers of them. 

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Since the poster said "They can be “fixed” with my Eastman Kodak silver coin dip.... the clue pointed to sodium thiosulfate with a little acetic acid. This is photographic "fixer" that dissolves silver halides and makes the image permanent.

Thiourea with citric acid is used in some toners for silver photographic prints, but is not/was not used to fix a film or paper image.

 

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51 minutes ago, RWB said:

Since the poster said "They can be “fixed” with my Eastman Kodak silver coin dip.... the clue pointed to sodium thiosulfate with a little acetic acid. This is photographic "fixer" that dissolves silver halides and makes the image permanent.

Thiourea with citric acid is used in some toners for silver photographic prints, but is not/was not used to fix a film or paper image.

 

No, but it can “fix”, aka “eliminate”, artificial toning on silver coins. 

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