Hack Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 The first photo is a raw 1902 coin that sold on eBay on 12/4/20. The second photo is the same 1902 coin sold on eBay 12/27/20 with a little color added. The coin in the NGC holder with a 1907 graded MS63 RB is currently for sale on eBay by the seller that bought the raw coin and sold the raw coin with color added. The eBay seller is selling a number of NGC graded coins that have the same toning look. Is the NGC coin AT? If the coin is AT, should NGC look into the submitter of the 1907? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) I would say that you did a good job of sleuthing, that does indeed appear to be the same coin. Unfortunately that color is somewhat easy to make and in general both of the major TPG's will slab coins that look like that often. It would be nice if NGC would look into this submitter but only NGC can answer the question of will they. Edited January 1, 2021 by Coinbuf GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post physics-fan3.14 Posted January 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 1, 2021 This has been treated with a substance called "MS-70." It is highly controversial, and a quick search of this site or of google should show you why. However, coins with this look are very often slabbed, so it is no surprise. lehigh96, GoldFinger1969 and gmarguli 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Is IT the same coin ? I see that indentation in the left cheekbone in the toned coin and I don't see that in the 1st coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 17 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said: Is IT the same coin ? I see that indentation in the left cheekbone in the toned coin and I don't see that in the 1st coin. I see it. The toning makes it look more pronounced, but if you look closely, you should see the basic indentation. I think that's another notable ding above it, at the temple, that shows more clearly in both pics. I do not reckon that's part of the design. GoldFinger1969 and RonnieR131 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RWB Posted January 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 2, 2021 "Coin Dr." "Con Dr." or "Quack" - all the same dishonest people. Hoghead515, MAULEMALL and Alex in PA. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFeld Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 7 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said: Is IT the same coin ? I see that indentation in the left cheekbone in the toned coin and I don't see that in the 1st coin. There are plenty of other matches. Among others, look at the marks on the rim. GoldFinger1969 and Hoghead515 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gmarguli Posted January 3, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2021 On 1/1/2021 at 7:32 AM, physics-fan3.14 said: This has been treated with a substance called "MS-70." It is highly controversial, and a quick search of this site or of google should show you why. However, coins with this look are very often slabbed, so it is no surprise. Are you saying that this "MS 70" can turn some coppers blue? ldhair, Alex in PA., Just Bob and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoghead515 Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 21 hours ago, MarkFeld said: There are plenty of other matches. Among others, look at the marks on the rim. I noticed that also. If u look really close you can see them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAULEMALL Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 On 1/2/2021 at 7:06 PM, gmarguli said: Are you saying that this "MS 70" can turn some coppers blue? PLEEEEENTY of people on this board sell em.... Alex in PA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Who is the complainant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conder101 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 On 1/2/2021 at 7:06 PM, gmarguli said: Are you saying that this "MS 70" can turn some coppers blue? It doesn't do it to all of them, but it IS known for doing that. Alex in PA. and lehigh96 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 7 hours ago, Conder101 said: It doesn't do it to all of them, but it IS known for doing that. Most blue cents you see are doctored. Alex in PA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lehigh96 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 On 1/1/2021 at 10:32 AM, physics-fan3.14 said: This has been treated with a substance called "MS-70." It is highly controversial, and a quick search of this site or of google should show you why. However, coins with this look are very often slabbed, so it is no surprise. This was my initial impression as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, lehigh96 said: This was my initial impression as well. Not mine. As the Great Zadok 🇿🇦 once noted, in a post festooned with an imaginary moot point, this point was well settled elsewhere. Not MS-70 nor my inadvisable WD-40, but I-53. I may have paid 3x what the average collector paid for their 2021-D Morgan, but when I get it (if I get it this summer or fall) it will be destined to sit in a glass tumbler half-filled with I-53 at room temperature for one hundred thirty-seven continuous hours, removed, and my findings reported to both @Just Bob, @VKurtB and whomever else may be interested. I will await explicit instructions as to the final disposition of the 2021-S Morgan I have no intention of molesting/mishandling/manhandling from my cousin Vinny when I get it. @Morpheus1967 was right. I do have the patience of a Saint as noted on another thread. Man, Iove this place! Edited June 24, 2021 by Quintus Arrius Reigning in disparate streams of conscoiusness. Alex in PA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post lehigh96 Posted June 24, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said: Not mine. As the Great Zadok 🇿🇦 once noted, in a post festooned with an imaginary moot point, this point was well settled elsewhere. Not MS-70 nor my inadvisable WD-40, but I-53. I may have paid 3x what the average collector paid for their 2021-D Morgan, but when I get it (if I get it this summer or fall) it will be destined to sit in a glass tumbler half-filled with I-53 at room temperature for one hundred thirty-seven continuous hours, removed, and my findings reported to both @Just Bob, @VKurtB and whomever else may be interested. I will await explicit instructions as to the final disposition of the 2021-S Morgan I have no intention of molesting/mishandling/manhandling from my cousin Vinny when I get it. @Morpheus1967 was right. I do have the patience of a Saint as noted on another thread. Man, Iove this place! Bartender, time to cut this one off. Alex in PA., Oldhoopster and Henri Charriere 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex in PA. Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 On 1/1/2021 at 7:57 PM, RWB said: "Coin Dr." "Con Dr." or "Quack" - all the same dishonest people. EBay used to be famous for these people. They ruined a lot of Morgan Dollars by 'cooking' (Artificial Toning) them. Many nice coins were ruined and many of those AT coins were bought only to receive the dreaded 'Questionable Color' designation. I wonder what happened to all those AT coins??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Alex in PA. said: EBay used to be famous for these people. They ruined a lot of Morgan Dollars by 'cooking' (Artificial Toning) them. Many nice coins were ruined and many of those AT coins were bought only to receive the dreaded 'Questionable Color' designation. I wonder what happened to all those AT coins??? They can be “fixed” with my Eastman Kodak silver coin dip. (A little darkroom rat play on words.) Alex in PA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Alex in PA. said: EBay used to be famous for these people. They ruined a lot of Morgan Dollars by 'cooking' (Artificial Toning) them. Many nice coins were ruined and many of those AT coins were bought only to receive the dreaded 'Questionable Color' designation. I wonder what happened to all those AT coins??? Several posters here and elsewhere have tracked specific coins. Some end up in approved holders, others get stripped and retoned, some are ruined. It is all about greed, dishonesty and lies. Alex in PA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex in PA. Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 7 minutes ago, RWB said: Several posters here and elsewhere have tracked specific coins. Some end up in approved holders, others get stripped and retoned, some are ruined. It is all about greed, dishonesty and lies. Absolutely 100% agree with you Roger except for the part "some are ruined". I believe they were all ruined and I hope those so called 'Coin Doctors' choked on their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 They are among those "doctors" who take a "Hypocritic Oath." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex in PA. Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 2 hours ago, VKurtB said: They can be “fixed” with my Eastman Kodak silver coin dip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 2 hours ago, VKurtB said: They can be “fixed” with my Eastman Kodak silver coin dip. (A little darkroom rat play on words.) He likely means sodium thiosulfate in an acid solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 3 hours ago, RWB said: He likely means sodium thiosulfate in an acid solution. No, thiourea and citric acid. On page 2323 (Volume 13) of the Encyclopedia of Practical Photography. Alex in PA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoghead515 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 I don't see how anyone could do that to a very old piece of history like that. They are bound to be off in the head. Very sad to be greedy enough to ruin a very old and nice coin just to get a few dollars out of it. My opinion they are just as bad as counterfeiters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 2 hours ago, VKurtB said: No, thiourea and citric acid. On page 2323 (Volume 13) of the Encyclopedia of Practical Photography. Volume, chapter and verse! Is it just me or is there anyone else left feeling you are speaking from personal experience? 🤔 Hoghead515 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said: Volume, chapter and verse! Is it just me or is there anyone else left feeling you are speaking from personal experience? 🤔 First column, just under half way down. Edited June 25, 2021 by VKurtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 4 hours ago, Hoghead515 said: I don't see how anyone could do that to a very old piece of history like that. They are bound to be off in the head. Very sad to be greedy enough to ruin a very old and nice coin just to get a few dollars out of it. My opinion they are just as bad as counterfeiters. They are, and there are gazillions of such unethical persons in this hobby. Untold numbers of them. Hoghead515 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Since the poster said "They can be “fixed” with my Eastman Kodak silver coin dip.... the clue pointed to sodium thiosulfate with a little acetic acid. This is photographic "fixer" that dissolves silver halides and makes the image permanent. Thiourea with citric acid is used in some toners for silver photographic prints, but is not/was not used to fix a film or paper image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 51 minutes ago, RWB said: Since the poster said "They can be “fixed” with my Eastman Kodak silver coin dip.... the clue pointed to sodium thiosulfate with a little acetic acid. This is photographic "fixer" that dissolves silver halides and makes the image permanent. Thiourea with citric acid is used in some toners for silver photographic prints, but is not/was not used to fix a film or paper image. No, but it can “fix”, aka “eliminate”, artificial toning on silver coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
