From Mine to Mint 2 2

[Hoghead515]

2 hours ago, leeg said:

In my mind all these questions are just "Over the Top."

Roger shouldn't have to answer all these mundane (lacking interest or excitement; dull.) questions. This topic has come up before in this Forum  when the book project first came out.

Roger is a noted author with many "book of the year" awards. It's very simple really: You buy it based on past Numismatic Awards, or you don't. Simple as that.

P.S. Good thing I haven't printed my book.

 

Roger has encouraged me to ask these questions. He enjoys getting on here teaching people who want to learn about it. Ive talked to him in personal post and he told me to ask any questions I want to about the book and he said he enjoys answering them. He has a passion to teach people who really want to learn. He is a very good teacher. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Hoghead515

[Hoghead515]

1 hour ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Leeg, Roger is very gracious with his time.  But nobody forces him to respond or pesters him -- he'll do so at his convenience and if he feels the post is important enough and worthy of a response. 

We are certainly grateful that he is helpful and generous in responding to our questions.  Most of us have bought his books already and we are looking to stimulate discussion based on our interest and enjoyment in reading his books.  The discussion also leads to questions and observations -- some good, some bad -- but not everybody is an expert on these topics so things get cleared up that way.  Roger is helpful to all, novice and expert. 

All we can do to reciprocate is spread the good word to buy his books and maybe find a way to support his research down the line.  I can tell you that is one thing I am looking into and I bet I find a receptive audience among others whom he has helped here and on other forums.

We are discussing some relatively minor items but there's nothing major going on in many of the books and topics and coins which Roger is an expert in.  We do have a thread on his SAINTS book and there's lots of valuable Q&A there.  Indeed, I've saved most of the pages in PDF format in case anything happens to the thread and this website. 

I know myself when I've written articles that have gotten published, I've LOVED the Q&A and feedback from the public.  I would guess Roger enjoys it, too. 

Sorry for the length of this post but I wanted to both thank Roger -- as well as the other participants in this thread for their useful observations and questions -- and respond to your concern, too.

I've been recommending his book to everyone. It is a wonderful book and so full of information. It will be hard to top it. 

[GoldFinger1969]

1 hour ago, Hoghead515 said:

I've been recommending his book to everyone. It is a wonderful book and so full of information. It will be hard to top it. 

Yup, I'm going to re-read it as I really didn't understand alot of the stuff when I tried the 1st time.  Having re-read Bowers' Double Eagle and Morgan Dollar Red Books, plus Roger's SAINTS DE book, I think I am better prepared.

BTW, I heard back from the author on the 1907-33 Gold Coin Handbook (last one 2008), no plans to do a 3rd Edition.  No word yet from Whitman on an updated DE Red Book (last one 2004).

[RWB]

5 hours ago, leeg said:

In my mind all these questions are just "Over the Top."

Roger shouldn't have to answer all these mundane (lacking interest or excitement; dull.) questions. This topic has come up before in this Forum  when the book project first came out.

Roger is a noted author with many "book of the year" awards. It's very simple really: You buy it based on past Numismatic Awards, or you don't. Simple as that.

P.S. Good thing I haven't printed my book.

 

Lee, thanks for the support, but it's OK --- questions are part of the feedback from readers. I also use it to help me understand if I have written something that does not make sense to readers. It's too easy to get trapped into one's own thoughts and not realize that the written words fail to actually explain the subject. In a way, I treat questions as a kind of "peer review" so that the next article or book can be clearer and better.

BTW - I really wish I could convince Whitman or someone with the resources to publish your Classic Commemorative book. It is so far beyond anything in print in accuracy, comprehensive treatment, and contextual interest, that keeping it from readers is incomprehensible. But the hobby of money runs on money of the hobby.

[GoldFinger1969]

5 minutes ago, RWB said:

BTW - I really wish I could convince Whitman or someone with the resources to publish your Classic Commemorative book. It is so far beyond anything in print in accuracy, comprehensive treatment, and contextual interest, that keeping it from readers is incomprehensible. But the hobby of money runs on money of the hobby.

I'd have interest in that.  I have a few commemoratives.

Even though I only have a few given to me raw by my grandparents, I may also hit Roger's PEACE DOLLAR Red Book.  Got really good reviews so who knows, maybe Peace Dollars will be my 3rd passion (after Saints and Morgans).

But first.....FMTM. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[Hoghead515]

I got a few modern commeratives. I really enjoy them. I really like some of the old ones. Sometime in the future I'm going to venture into that part of the hobby. Alot of them are true works of art. 

[GoldFinger1969]

See what these forums can do, Leeg ?  You have pre-orders for a commemorative book !  

[Fenntucky Mike]

12 minutes ago, Hoghead515 said:

I got a few modern commeratives. I really enjoy them. I really like some of the old ones. Sometime in the future I'm going to venture into that part of the hobby. Alot of them are true works of art. 

I really like those classic commemoratives and you can get most in good grades for a decent price. Definitely going to be looking at acquiring a few of those this year after a little research.

[Hoghead515]

15 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

I really like those classic commemoratives and you can get most in good grades for a decent price. Definitely going to be looking at acquiring a few of those this year after a little research.

I really do to.  I like alot of the modern commeratives to. My favorite one I have is the 2008 bald eagle. It is very special to me. Makes me think of my dad. We don't see very many bald eagles at all where I live. Maybe 1 a year if that. I lost my dad in January of last year. He was 60 years old. Died the day after his birthday. We was on the way to his funeral and stopped on the little road we live on and a beautiful bald eagle flew up and landed in a tree bout 15 feet above our heads and stared at us. That's why that coin became special to me. Reminds me of him and that day. Not to mention it is a very beautiful coin also. The artist did an amazing job on the details in the feathers and everything. We also had one pay a visit on Christmas day right outside moms house. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Hoghead515

[Hoghead515]

[GoldFinger1969]

I picked up a beautiful Bald Eagle hot plate at an outdoor show last year.  They were out of coasters. 

The commemoratives I am looking at are mostly sub-1 oz. gold ones, like McKinley.  I also own and have interest in some old silver commemoratives, too.

As I mentioned here or in another thread, I like the Augustus Saint-Gaudens commemoratives, too, but so far have only purchased the silver ones.  Hope to get the gold one for close to melt down the line.

[Hoghead515]

On the reducing lathes from the time period in FMTM. What was the cutting tools made of?  Also how often did they need replaced?  Like could they cut a few hubs or did they try to replace them after cutting 1 hub since the process to so long?  Also what type of material was the tracing stylus made of? You don't have to answer this question if you don't want. I don't want to aggravate you in no kind of way. Answer only if you want. They may be dull questions to some but I find these kinds of things very interesting and I'm very curious of what they used in those days. I'm fascinated in things like that plum down to what kind of screws they had holding the machines together. It don't take much to make old Hoghead excited. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Hoghead515

[GoldFinger1969]

Hoghead, great story about your father and bald eagles.   

Look into the Wedge-Tailed Eagle coins from the Perth Mint.

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[Hoghead515]

I will have to look into them. I love bald eagles. What was so amazing was that one just sit there. It never tried to fly off or nothing. We watched it for a few and then drove off. Kinda brightened up a sad day a little.  It's a crazy story but I was thinking about dad on Christmas day while we was having dinner. Then looked out the window and a big eagle flew up in a tree at moms house. Reminded me of that day of his funeral. It's the first one I seen since we buried him last year. 

[Hoghead515]

[Hoghead515]

Used to we never saw any at all. I'm glad they are getting more populated and coming around more. My favorite bird. 

[GoldFinger1969]

54 minutes ago, Hoghead515 said:

I will have to look into them. I love bald eagles. 

They're not Bald Eagles but Wedge-Tailed Eagles.  Must be cousins. 

The gold coins are obviously pricey, but you can get the 1 oz. silver coins for under $100 usually.  They also have 5 oz. coins that you can get for just under $200 or so.

[Hoghead515]

5 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

They're not Bald Eagles but Wedge-Tailed Eagles.  Must be cousins. 

The gold coins are obviously pricey, but you can get the 1 oz. silver coins for under $100 usually.  They also have 5 oz. coins that you can get for just under $200 or so.

Ill look into them here afterwhile.  I like any kind of bird. Especially birds of prey. I like little songbirds too. We feed them all the time here at the house.  I love looking at art like that where the artist captures all the detail so well. I wish I was that good of an artist. 

[leeg]

On 1/25/2021 at 3:33 PM, RWB said:

Lee, thanks for the support, but it's OK --- questions are part of the feedback from readers. I also use it to help me understand if I have written something that does not make sense to readers. It's too easy to get trapped into one's own thoughts and not realize that the written words fail to actually explain the subject. In a way, I treat questions as a kind of "peer review" so that the next article or book can be clearer and better.

BTW - I really wish I could convince Whitman or someone with the resources to publish your Classic Commemorative book. It is so far beyond anything in print in accuracy, comprehensive treatment, and contextual interest, that keeping it from readers is incomprehensible. But the hobby of money runs on money of the hobby.

 

Got cha and much thanks!

[Hoghead515]

Another thing I find very interesting on the reducing lathes is how they fixed them to just have enough pressure on the keep the stylus from hanging on the pattern piece and keep enough so the cutting piece eat into the metal. Those inventors of those machines were very genius. I would love to be able to see one in person and see exactly how all the parts on it work to a science. I know these today we got the technology and it's easy but back in those days I believe those days I believe those guys were amazing. I bet it took alot of trial and error. 

[RWB]

38 minutes ago, Hoghead515 said:

I would love to be able to see one in person and see exactly how all the parts on it work to a science.

Look in the JNR Issue #1. It has the Janvier patent and drawings. Also an 1896 toggle coin press patent.

[Star City Homer]

On 1/25/2021 at 9:33 AM, leeg said:

....

P.S. Good thing I haven't printed my book.

 

I wish it were published!  Any chance of a self-pub via Kindle (IIRC though it's been years, one can have a book formatted that is more appropriate for laptop or tablet viewed vs. an actual 'paper' type Kindle)?  Or maybe a website?  I remember some of your work on it and even though it's not an area I actively collect in, it would be fascinating.

[Hoghead515]

2 hours ago, RWB said:

Look in the JNR Issue #1. It has the Janvier patent and drawings. Also an 1896 toggle coin press patent.

Thank you Roger. I looked through it a little but not real good yet. I'm going to read it better this weekend or something. I wanted to find a day where I can take a whole day and try to study and recreate it in my mind off those blueprints. I thank you much my good friend. 

[Hoghead515]

I think I've read this already somewhere in the book but I can't remember. On the toggle presses they had siphon wicks in cups to oil parts of the machine. What kind of oil was it they used on them in those days?  I figured they probably used something that wouldn't affect the finish of the coin if it got on it. 

[RWB]

Whale oil was the most common lubricant for wicking. Later, refined petroleum was used. They let annual contracts for supplies including oils and lard (used for greasing coinage strips), and routinely tested samples. Here's a reply from an unsuccessful test.

Edited January 29, 2021 by RWB

[RWB]

Here's an 1888 bid letter from an oil and lard supplier. Notice that Sperm whale oil was 85-cents per gallon.

[Hoghead515]

Thank you Roger. That is some very interesting stuff. Looks like they did a lot of experimenting. 

[GoldFinger1969]

Roger, you got those invoices from the Newman Portal ?

[RWB]

45 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Roger, you got those invoices from the Newman Portal ?

The originals were photographed for NNP by John Graffeo and Nicole Fry as part of Entry-1 "General Correspondence." I adjusted the above images for improved readability. These are among the thousands of documents selected for eventual transcription. I have a larger size group made at NARA College Park, Md., covering a wide range of Mint,  Treasury, and Secret Service materials.

PS: I think the company name at bottom of the Aetna letter refers to Valvoline Oil Co. (1866: Dr. John Ellis founded Valvoline in 1866 when he discovered the lubricating properties of distilled crude oil, formulating the world's first petroleum-based lubricant. Valvoline™ oil was officially trademarked in 1873.)

[Hoghead515]

Very interesting info. I enjoy learning about that kind of stuff. I can sit and read about it all day.