PVC damage to coin bought at The Coinhouse Auctions? 0

[Miguel del Rio]

Greetings!

Bought a coin not so recently at Auction No 16 from The Coinhouse Auctions in Belgium on Sept. 30th which Peter Eyckmans so kindly posted on Nov. 4th, and subsequently received the coin Nov. 16th.

Expected a coin resembling this photo posted for lot 574:

Wouldn’t have bid for the coin given its visible imperfections except that this coin is difficult to obtain in higher grades and, at 50 Euros, what could go wrong?

These are photos of the coin actually received:

Notice that some identifying features of the idealized coin are also present in the actual coin.

Coin has the appearance of being sprayed with a corrosive mist, possibly to hide the latent finger prints.

Could the evenness of the pitting of the surfaces of the coin the result of storage in a PVC holder and subsequent removal of the PVC deposits?

The 50 Euros bid price turned in to over $100 once shipped via PayPal and registered mail.

Imagine using an auction house to pawn off junk coins rather than taking the coins to a scrap dealer!

Attentively,

MiguelDelRio

[MAULEMALL]

Acitone may help it...I can feel your angst and disappointment as coin auction houses can be pretty disingenuous,,, 

I commend you on your pics... 

[DWLange]

I don't see any pvc residue, but perhaps some light toning.

[bsshog40]

It also looks like haze to me, besides the prints. I've never had luck removing haze either with acetone or a quick dip. 

[e1cnr]

The spots are in the same positions so it is the same coin. It is amazing/deceptive how lighting/overexposure can change our looks of a coin.

[Miguel del Rio]

Encountered this damage on another coin that was actually shipped in a soft PVC holder. Seller claimed that the picture he used of that of the coin a few years ago and that damage must have occurred during storage.

This coin is headed for its hard plastic flip while I apply for a PayPal refund.

Ruled out accidental skin prints since the damage is so proximate to the coin devices. Heard rumors of soft plastic, non-PVC flips that, in time, bleed chemicals on to the coins.

[Miguel del Rio]

21 minutes ago, e1cnr said:

The spots are in the same positions so it is the same coin. It is amazing/deceptive how lighting/overexposure can change our looks of a coin.

Yes.

Some auction houses supply their own photos when the seller's can not be used. This HA auction delayed the photo of this coin while they made suitable reproduction:

https://coins.ha.com/itm/brazil/brazil-republic-gold-proof-discovery-anniversary-20-reais-2000-/a/61181-97118.s

[James_OldeTowne]

Your photos are MUCH better than the originals created by the seller.  I greatly dislike those kinds of photos of white-on-black cameo proofs that display not even a hint of the actual character of the fields.

[Miguel del Rio]

12 hours ago, James_OldeTowne said:

Your photos are MUCH better than the originals created by the seller.  I greatly dislike those kinds of photos of white-on-black cameo proofs that display not even a hint of the actual character of the fields.

The photos were obviously the seller's and not taken by The Coinhouse Auctions. 

I had similar experience with a merchant who claimed his picture of a nearly flawless proof was taken years before the coin was damaged by the PVC flip in storage.

These are photos of the actual coin received:

These are the promotional photos:

On the reverse side, notice the toning between the words "25.000" and "SUCRES" and extending to "ECUADOR" matches toning to be found also on the damaged coin's reverse.

The damage is almost entirely due to pitting, the remainder due to foreign matter possibly deposited by the flip as well.

This would lend credence to that merchant's explanation that the coin surfaces decayed due to the flip in which it was stored over time.

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Miguel del Rio
clarity

[rocket23]

So can you get pvc damage from clear capsules commonly used by the us mint and others.??

[VKurtB]

1 hour ago, rocket23 said:

So can you get pvc damage from clear capsules commonly used by the us mint and others.??

Normally hard capsules won’t do this, UNLESS those capsules are, in turn, in a PVC-laden page, something I have seen frequently.

[rocket23]

3 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Normally hard capsules won’t do this, UNLESS those capsules are, in turn, in a PVC-laden page, something I have seen frequently.

So generally speaking the pvc are the clear plastic sheaths......and not the hard plastic variety. Thanks Kurt.

[VKurtB]

3 minutes ago, rocket23 said:

So generally speaking the pvc are the clear plastic sheaths......and not the hard plastic variety. Thanks Kurt.

“Soft and flexible” usually implies PVC is present. 

[Miguel del Rio]

PVC flips were popular decades ago before anyone knew any better. However, overtime, the damage to coins became apparent.

These Chile 1968So coins were shipped from Santiago and some coins are still sold in their original holders. I was fortune to purchase a set that did not have any signs of damage, however, this set currently for sale on Ebay is not so fortunate. Notice how the 5 Peso coin is discolored where it made contact with the flip:

Photo below shows the upper half of the PVC flip used to ship the Ecuador 2006 coin, now in the square hard plastic capsule, that shows the most significant damage I've encountered thus far (flip labelled 240A):

:

Modern soft plastic flips don't use PVC, however, they are rumored to bleed other damaging chemicals on to coins over time.

See Recognizing Coin Holders That Contain PVC.

The hard plastic Mylar flips and capsules don't outgas harmful chemicals.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Miguel del Rio
spelling

[Just Bob]

And, plastics containing PVC will often smell like a new shower curtain.

 

[Miguel del Rio]

These are photos of the Chile 1968So coins that were purchased in their PVC flips 50 years later, now holdered:

The damage done to the 5 Peso coin is typical of the packing from the mint and not due to any interaction with the PVC flip.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Miguel del Rio
subtraction

[VKurtB]

20 hours ago, Just Bob said:

And, plastics containing PVC will often smell like a new shower curtain.

 

Like 1953 British uncirculated sets. Yikes!  100% pure “shower curtain” original packaging.

[Miguel del Rio]

3 hours ago, VKurtB said:

Like 1953 British uncirculated sets. Yikes!  100% pure “shower curtain” original packaging.

Yes, volatile organic compounds (VOCs) can have an odor.