How, if any, do die clashes factor into grading?
1 1

16 posts in this topic

74 posts

I picked up an 1862 Seated Dime today, and the reason I ended up buying it was it has very prominent die clashing. For me this adds character, and tells a story of how early minting processes have vastly improved over time. However, my question is how does this affect grading? Is it viewed similar to a weak strike, disregarded and considered a normal component of early coinage, etc... 

 

I am attaching pictures of the reference coin that sparked the question, but they are not the best. There are die clashes on both obverse and reverse, with the obverse having multiple areas covering the majority. 

Seated Dime Obverse.jpg

Seated Dime Reverse.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,651 posts
20 minutes ago, Woods020 said:

I picked up an 1862 Seated Dime today, and the reason I ended up buying it was it has very prominent die clashing. For me this adds character, and tells a story of how early minting processes have vastly improved over time. However, my question is how does this affect grading? Is it viewed similar to a weak strike, disregarded and considered a normal component of early coinage, etc... 

 

I am attaching pictures of the reference coin that sparked the question, but they are not the best. There are die clashes on both obverse and reverse, with the obverse having multiple areas covering the majority. 

Seated Dime Obverse.jpg

Seated Dime Reverse.jpg

Why are they backward?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
74 posts
1 minute ago, VKurtB said:

Why are they backward?

The camera I used to snap the pictures inverts the image. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,651 posts
3 minutes ago, Woods020 said:

The camera I used to snap the pictures inverts the image. 

Wow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
74 posts
1 minute ago, VKurtB said:

Wow.

It a cheap digital camera on my computer. I am sure there is a way to fix that, but my question is really more general. I realize the pictures included aren't sufficient for a grading opinion. I simply added it as an example, albeit a poorly photographed and inverted one. I am more curious how I should think about older coinage where die clashes were common. Is this good, bad, doesn't factor one way or another, etc...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,651 posts
11 minutes ago, Woods020 said:

It a cheap digital camera on my computer. I am sure there is a way to fix that, but my question is really more general. I realize the pictures included aren't sufficient for a grading opinion. I simply added it as an example, albeit a poorly photographed and inverted one. I am more curious how I should think about older coinage where die clashes were common. Is this good, bad, doesn't factor one way or another, etc...

Pretty sure clashes are irrelevant to the grade. BTW, other than the reverse, nice pics.

Edited by VKurtB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13,680 posts
1 hour ago, Woods020 said:

The camera I used to snap the pictures inverts the image. 

Hold the camera or computer backwards, or photograph the coin off a mirror reflection.....Clashes are often interesting and do not normally reduce a coin's value.

This might help a little.....

Image1.jpg

Edited by RWB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,651 posts
29 minutes ago, RWB said:

Hold the camera or computer backwards, or photograph the coin off a mirror reflection.....Clashes are often interesting and do not normally reduce a coin's value.

This might help a little.....

Image1.jpg

I believe that the OP’s pictures might have been digitally “flipped off”. Bravo. :golfclap:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13,680 posts

The OPs posted photos were mirror images--which is what the CCD actually "sees" before the camera SW corrects it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15,991 posts

That kind of clashing is common for coins of the mid-19th century, and in my experience, seems particularly prominent on smaller denominations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13,680 posts

Dimes were being struck at 100-120 per minute. It might have been more difficult to see or hear dies meeting without a planchet between them, than for larger coin made at a somewhat slower rate. I'm not sure any of the press operators used magnifiers -- at least I've never seen it mentioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
74 posts
1 hour ago, James_OldeTowne said:

That kind of clashing is common for coins of the mid-19th century, and in my experience, seems particularly prominent on smaller denominations.

Thanks James. Everything I have read is reflecting the same. They really showed no mercy on these dies. 

I was mainly curious on if die clashes were viewed positively, negatively, or neutral by the collecting community. It seems it has no bearing on grade or desirability from the answers here. Much appreciated everyone! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
168 posts

 

1 hour ago, Woods020 said:

I was mainly curious on if die clashes were viewed positively, negatively, or neutral by the collecting community.

Depends on the individual collector as to how desirable clashing is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,406 posts

I personally find die clashes very interesting, but I don't know if I would pay extra for one, unless it was really special looking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15,991 posts

As far as I know, clashed dies should not affect a coin's grade, with the exception of modern extremely high-grade proof coins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,651 posts
21 hours ago, James_OldeTowne said:

As far as I know, clashed dies should not affect a coin's grade, with the exception of modern extremely high-grade proof coins.

My thoughts exactly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
1 1