End of World War II 75th Anniversary American Eagle Coins 0

[gmarguli]

I can't believe we don't have a thread going on over these coins. People are going crazy on the other coin forums. Anger at the Mint website which was banning people, timeouts, captcha insanity, etc. Greed with the gold already having dealer buy prices of $7K+.

So did anyone brave the website and what were your results?

Gold: I was able to order one at 12:03 per the order email confirmation and I received a second final order confirmed email at 1:00.

Silver: I was able to order one at 12:18 and I received a second final order confirmed email at 2:55.

I was also able to identify an uncountable number of bikes, buses, and boats before my orders were actually processed. FYI, there were 46K order in between my two purchases assuming the mint uses sequential order numbers. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by gmarguli
Updated order confirmation times.

[GoldFinger1969]

Unreal....again, limited supply to create gouging in the secondary market. 

[Fenntucky Mike]

About the same as you, my boats were all pontoons. Order went through about quarter after and received conformation right away.

[Morpheus1967]

I got one about 12:30.  I purchased another from a co-worker, who also got one, for $150.  (That's all he would take for it.)  But the banning, captcha, etc was ridiculous.  

[Old Pueblo]

Had a freaking nightmare finally got a Silver Eagle in my shopping cart but continued to have problems completing the transaction then suddenly what appeared to be a completed transaction, the web screen flashed that there was a "invalid product" in my shopping cart. Evidently the coins were sold out while one was in my shopping cart....that doesn't seem cool at all

I didn't get one, and I've been collecting them since the beginning in 1986! 

I have sent inquiry email to US mint, as the coin is still in my shopping cart

Edited November 5, 2020 by Old Pueblo

[gmarguli]

Been reading that a lot with people having the gold in their cart and by the time they get into the checkout process it says sold out. Sounds like a lot of people thought that by placing it in the cart it was somehow reserved. It sure would have been nice to give people who managed to get it into their cart a few minutes to check out. Kind of how Amazon did it on their Prime Day. Once it's in the cart, it's reserved and you have X minutes to check out.

For me, the captcha was insane. I picked out the bikes/boats/buses and when I'd submit it I'd get a website error message and it'd make me pick everything out again. I swear I did the captcha at least 20 times between my two orders. 

[physics-fan3.14]

Had a dealer email me and offer to pay $2000 above the mint's price if I would order and ship them to him. 

Absolutely could not get out of work today to be on the website at noon, but I really tried. 

[CBC]

Same story here. Identified about 82 bikes/boats/cars, finally got one silver eagle in my cart by 12:10, identified another 112 bikes/boats/buses/cars trying to get the website to let me checkout.  “Error1015”. Eventually got checked out (close to 1:00), received a text confirming receipt of the order, and received an email with order details just before 5:00. 

[RWB]

Sad.

[bsshog40]

This is what I got when I tried to log in, "banned". I was able to log in a while ago. Glad I was too. It gave me the chance to delete my last 2 subscriptions and delete all my payment methods! I'm 100% done with the mint!!

 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by bsshog40
Removed pic due to IP showing.

[Conder101]

On 11/5/2020 at 6:01 PM, gmarguli said:

Sounds like a lot of people thought that by placing it in the cart it was somehow reserved.

Yes, this happens every time they have a super popular item.  You get a lot of complaints about how they "had it in my car, but it wouldn't let me check out and said I had an invailid item".  Putting it in you bag does NOT reserve it.  The site counts them as people check out and when enough have been purchased sales end, even though people still have them in their bags.

[World Colonial]

On 11/5/2020 at 2:04 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Unreal....again, limited supply to create gouging in the secondary market. 

I wasn't even aware of these two coins until recently when I read about it here and ATS.  It will be interesting to see how it performs in the secondary market, as the mintage of 75,000 isn't remotely low for the price forecasts I have seen.

The 2019-S ERP had fallen significantly (on eBay) from my prior reviews but I have not checked lately.  The lowest price I recall was in the low $600s but with a wide variation.  Sure, somewhat different coin but most collectors will still settle for the "regular" proof if it's too expensive and still consider their set "complete".

As for the gold, some of the price forecasts I have seen (high four figures) would make it almost as expensive (within 25% or slightly more) of the most common US Assay Office Territorial gold in nice AU.  That's nothing short of insane.

[gmarguli]

2 hours ago, World Colonial said:

I wasn't even aware of these two coins until recently when I read about it here and ATS.  It will be interesting to see how it performs in the secondary market, as the mintage of 75,000 isn't remotely low for the price forecasts I have seen.

The 2019-S ERP had fallen significantly (on eBay) from my prior reviews but I have not checked lately.  The lowest price I recall was in the low $600s but with a wide variation.  Sure, somewhat different coin but most collectors will still settle for the "regular" proof if it's too expensive and still consider their set "complete".

As for the gold, some of the price forecasts I have seen (high four figures) would make it almost as expensive (within 25% or slightly more) of the most common US Assay Office Territorial gold in nice AU.  That's nothing short of insane.

I suspect that the SAE will hold up pretty well. It is a popular series and the coin likely won't be too expensive for a lot of people. The mintage, while smaller than normal, will not be enough to keep it priced super high. The only reason I suspect it may stay higher than it should is because of its relationship to the GAE which will be priced out of line for most people and this is a cheap substitute.

The gold seems crazy. While many people might like one for the novelty, how many people are actually putting together a complete set of these and need one? It's crazy to me that a person could have one of these or a PR65 Seated $, an MS64+ 3-Leg or PR67 CAMEO Buffalo, or an XF Flowing Hair $ for the same price. 

[World Colonial]

43 minutes ago, gmarguli said:

I suspect that the SAE will hold up pretty well. It is a popular series and the coin likely won't be too expensive for a lot of people. The mintage, while smaller than normal, will not be enough to keep it priced super high. The only reason I suspect it may stay higher than it should is because of its relationship to the GAE which will be priced out of line for most people and this is a cheap substitute.

I didn't consider buying it as a substitute for the GAE.  It's a valid point.

55 minutes ago, gmarguli said:

The gold seems crazy. While many people might like one for the novelty, how many people are actually putting together a complete set of these and need one? It's crazy to me that a person could have one of these or a PR65 Seated $, an MS64+ 3-Leg or PR67 CAMEO Buffalo, or an XF Flowing Hair $ for the same price. 

I totally agree with you here. 

The likely reality is that they aren't, not as a collectible but as a substitute for other forms of bullion ownership where they anticipate the numismatic premium will increase along with the spot price.

The reason I used the Territorial gold coin (I can never remember exactly which one but I think it's the 1853 $20) is because it's another (approximately) 1oz gold coin selling for potentially a similar price and it's a real coin, not one that I define as just another gimmick.

I would also far prefer to own the examples you listed, but I suspect someone considering this coin would probably buy another gold as an alternative.  Still though, there are many classic US gold that are a lot more interesting.  For starters, some early half eagles around mid AU or the more common mid-grade proof $5s and maybe somewhat lower grade $10s.  Even more if expanded to include world gold, like the 1790 Belgian Insurrection 14 florin up to MS-64 and any number of French or English medieval

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/5/2020 at 5:31 PM, Old Pueblo said:

Had a freaking nightmare finally got a Silver Eagle in my shopping cart but continued to have problems completing the transaction then suddenly what appeared to be a completed transaction, the web screen flashed that there was a "invalid product" in my shopping cart. Evidently the coins were sold out while one was in my shopping cart....that doesn't seem cool at all

I didn't get one, and I've been collecting them since the beginning in 1986! 

I have sent inquiry email to US mint, as the coin is still in my shopping cart

Not that what I am going to say will make a difference, but I sent the Mint several money orders totaling roughly $4,000 which was subsequently approved -- and then SILENCE.  Eventually, I made inquiry, discovered existing stocks were depleted, and rather than return my money orders they issued a government U.S. Mint check, which then lacking a checking account, cost me $73. to cash.  When the young cashier who spoke no English was unable to comprehend my reason for the purchase (bullion) I referred her to the telephone number on the check.  The one thing that sticks out in my mind is in all the flurry of excitement over a monstrous check, I was never asked to turn it over, sign it and provide written identification.  This incident and the many instances of buyers seemingly simultaneously outstripping supply has soured me on the Mint.

[scopru]

16 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

This incident and the many instances of buyers seemingly simultaneously outstripping supply has soured me on the Mint.

The incidents are piling up more frequently as time marches on.   I think many people have and many more are in process of souring on the Mint.

Edited November 9, 2020 by scopru
typo

[World Colonial]

It's a catch-22.

Usually, supply is greater than demand and buyers dislike the declining price in the secondary market.

With "limited " issue releases, there is rush to buy the moment it becomes available, the servers can't handle all the orders, and there isn't enough supply for every prospective buyer.  Potential buyers complain claiming they wanted the coin but often, it's really because they couldn't cash in on the windfall.

Occasionally, there are exceptions to the above two scenarios but I only recall one or a few.  Since no one knows what the actual demand will be later, seems the only solution is to either issue enough to fill all orders or offer it to the highest bidder at issuance.

I have the sneaking suspicion most wouldn't like either of these two options either.

[scopru]

31 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

I have the sneaking suspicion most wouldn't like either of these two options either.

I am in agreement.

[MK Ultra]

Anyone get the 1/2 oz today?

[Henri Charriere]

Just curious, as most collectors are aware, the 1995-W Proof ASE were cleverly ensconced in a multi-piece gold set.

The only way to acquire one was to purchase the set and defile its sarcophagus to obtain the only coin you were really interested in.  An expensive undertaking.

Making matters more complicated, a comparatively few number were minted.

Last I heard (I guess a quarter-century ago) those silver proofs, alone, were selling for $30,000.  Two minutes ago, 11/09/2020, 1245 hrs., I saw one being offered on eBay for $3,000.  I would like to know whether anyone has any feeling about this, whether you got in on the ground floor or not, and/or whether you cracked yours out or not.  In short, it's been 25 years.  How do you feel about it?

[World Colonial]

16 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Making matters more complicated, a comparatively few number were minted.

Last I heard (I guess a quarter-century ago) those silver proofs, alone, were selling for $30,000.  Two minutes ago, 11/09/2020, 1245 hrs., I saw one being offered on eBay for $3,000.  

Last I checked (last year when posting on the ERP), a PCGS PR-70 was around $15K to my recollection.  NGC, around $10K.  PR-69 were selling in the $3K range.

I also recall posts stating the 1995 set was not an immediate sell out which if correct, means few were expecting the subsequent secondary market demand.  By "immediate", referring to a timeframe consistent with phone and mail orders, not internet.

The 1995-W isn't really comparable to other "low mintage" ASE.  Every set collector seems to want it which isn't true of the others.  It's also the only coin I would define as a "key date" since 1982 (dime w/o MM even though this is actually an error or variety).

With only one "key date" in the "basic set", it's presumably within potential financial reach of most ASE collectors.  By current standards of affordability, the set is moderately priced even with this coin included.  It's "low mintage" to be "scarce" enough while being available all the time.

The other coins outside the "basic set"?  These gimmicks increase the cost substantially to the predominant target buyer since there are so many.  There seem to be enough financially motivated buyers (for now) to keep it above issue price but none are likely to be valued like the 95-W proportionately to the mintage.

[gmarguli]

1 hour ago, MK Ultra said:

Anyone get the 1/2 oz today?

I grabbed one. I'm not sure of the demand these will have in the secondary market, but it seemed like little downside risk. Given the fact the GAE are going for crazy prices, perhaps people who can't afford those will want this instead? 

I started trying at 12:06 ET and got a confirmation at 12:12 ET that my order was successful. I did not try for the silver medal. It took me longer to get this one than the GAE, even though there was no captcha this time. 

[Conder101]

On 11/9/2020 at 1:36 PM, World Colonial said:

I also recall posts stating the 1995 set was not an immediate sell out

That is correct, there was a maximum of 50,000 coins and just a little over 31,000 were sold.

[jtryka]

It seems the mint never learns on these.  I had similar frustrations with whatever the special proof was a year ago, had all sort of technical problems and finally got one.  I found out later they were selling for like $1,500 but I didn't care, it's in it's little blue box in a closet with all the rest of them, just where this one will go.  This one seemed as though the technology problems from last year were just exponentially worse as you had that idiotic "I'm not a robot" screen that it just kept going back to over and over again, then it was "you have been banned" which I've never seen before!  Finally after about an hour and 20 minutes, I got a confirmation and took a screen shot to be sure (rumor has it the coin was shipped yesterday).  Then when the WW2 medal came out I thought I'd try again since it was an attractive design in my view and although there were still issues, it wasn't nearly so bad and I ended up getting one in about 20 minutes.

The Royal Canadian Mint seems to have a better approach (though to be fair most of their coin offerings are produced in small numbers that are well in excess of potential demand since there are fewer collectors there compared to the US) as they have a loyalty program that rewards you based on purchase level.  So each level gets advance notice and ability to order, so platinum members might get to buy 5 days before the general public, gold might be 4 days, silver might be 3 days, but if gives some recognition to collectors who want to collect their coins and rewards them for loyalty.  They also offer a percentage in rewards that you can use for purchases the next year.  Overall, it's a reason that I've never been super ticked off at the Canadians like I seem to be routinely annoyed by the US mint.

[VKurtB]

I NEVER blame the US Mint for these debacles. They are pretty much blameless. There ARE two usual perpetrators - 1) Congress, and 2) the entire "flipper culture". State any kind of mintage limit and WHAMMO the flippers move in. State that it's unlimited and often FAR FEWER are ever sold. Mass hysteria and "quick buck" fever rule the day. It's one of things that ruin this hobby. #ScrewTheFlippers

Edited November 13, 2020 by VKurtB

[Crawtomatic]

10 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

It's one of things that ruin this hobby. #ScrewTheFlippers

Screw me then. 

But I think it's a matter of perspective.  I flipped the V75 silver eagle and then spent the $600 on a Buffalo nickel.  That's not even made of a silver, the horror!  So, I mean, didn't the US Mint in that way add some value to the hobby?  I don't imagine I'm the only one that saw the opportunity on a series I could care little about to serve my actual collecting habits.

The low mintage is a manufactured scarcity as opposed to survivability percentages of low mintage coins from the 19th or early 20th century.  But, still, the hobby's been using scarcity + condition = value as a general function for so long it's kind of accepted.  At least with US coinage.  Last I checked, the Royal Mint has lower mintages on a lot of their commemoratives and non-circulating coins but it doesn't actually translate to inflated value on all of them.  

[VKurtB]

2 hours ago, CRAWTOMATIC said:

Screw me then. 

But I think it's a matter of perspective.  I flipped the V75 silver eagle and then spent the $600 on a Buffalo nickel.  That's not even made of a silver, the horror!  So, I mean, didn't the US Mint in that way add some value to the hobby?  I don't imagine I'm the only one that saw the opportunity on a series I could care little about to serve my actual collecting habits.

The low mintage is a manufactured scarcity as opposed to survivability percentages of low mintage coins from the 19th or early 20th century.  But, still, the hobby's been using scarcity + condition = value as a general function for so long it's kind of accepted.  At least with US coinage.  Last I checked, the Royal Mint has lower mintages on a lot of their commemoratives and non-circulating coins but it doesn't actually translate to inflated value on all of them.  

It’s absolutely NOT personal, but I have never felt comfortable with the flipper culture. As someone formally trained in economics, I consider it a bastardization of the market, rewarding “insincere demand” at the expense of legitimate demand. Sorry, again, not personal.

[bsshog40]

1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

It’s absolutely NOT personal, but I have never felt comfortable with the flipper culture. As someone formally trained in economics, I consider it a bastardization of the market, rewarding “insincere demand” at the expense of legitimate demand. Sorry, again, not personal.

And I have to say that I agree! I am a collector! It's a shame that others buy to rip off other collectors! 

[gmarguli]

1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

It’s absolutely NOT personal, but I have never felt comfortable with the flipper culture. As someone formally trained in economics, I consider it a bastardization of the market, rewarding “insincere demand” at the expense of legitimate demand. Sorry, again, not personal.

The Mint is the only one to blame in this situation. They sold an item well below market price. They could have priced it at $10K and sold out or they could have priced it at $2600 and sold 5X as many as they did. They bastardized the marketplace. Flippers didn't create insincere demand. They are not posting fake buy prices in order to inflate their sell price (See: Chinese coin market). Flippers bought an item that was priced under market in order to sell it at market price. If anything, they are helping the market work efficiently.

Without flippers buying up some of the supply, these coins would still be trading at $10K and thousands of collectors would still be complaining that they didn't get one. 

FYI, I purchased mine to flip. No apologies. I'll take a shot at buying anything that is priced well under the market. Everyone had the same chance at winning the Mint lottery. At the end of the day, a collector has the coin they wanted at a price they are happy with and I have my mortgage covered for the next couple of months. 

[GoldFinger1969]

The Mint left money on the table and gave it to speculators.   Like a company pricing it's shares in an IPO at 1/2 the 1st day close.