Get Ready for the 2020 NGC Registry Awards!
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65 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, jgenn said:

When you add a coin to a custom set you can select "Want" instead of "Own" and fill that new slot with images and notes for your raw coin.  I plan to do that for several new crowns that I've picked up but haven't yet sent in for certification.

That's brilliant, I've been trying to figure out a way to get the images of my raw tokens to be visible in a custom set. 

Now I can pick back up on my custom sets.

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1 hour ago, jgenn said:

When you add a coin to a custom set you can select "Want" instead of "Own" and fill that new slot with images and notes for your raw coin.  I plan to do that for several new crowns that I've picked up but haven't yet sent in for certification.

Interesting I was not aware of this work around, I just went and changed the own to want for one coin and it does indeed work.  I was also able to change it back to owned and all the purchase info was retained so no lost data either.  Thanks! (thumbsu

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The only quirk to this is that the "View Coin" button is not available for the "Want" coins on your main set listing page.  However, the photo button will take you to the individual coin page.  Fortunately, the gallery view will show these slots with photos and notes.

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6 hours ago, jgenn said:

Technically, the Collectors’ Society is not part of a Registry. All Registry coins are in a Collectors’ Society database, but the reverse is not true. I have literally HUNDREDS  of coins in my Collectors’ Society database, but I’ve never even TOUCHED any Registry. 

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On 10/26/2020 at 6:01 PM, VKurtB said:

Ready? I'm excited! Ooh, ooh, ooh.  …   …  … Okay, I'm over it now.

I tip my hat to your untrendy candor. Take equal parts of Crass Competitiveness, Accidental Affluence, and a dash of Philistine Dilettantism (shaken, not stirred) - now add an Ego/Investment olive and one has the perfect Vulgarity cocktail. I simply cannot see the intellectual/romantic value-added by set registries. 

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18 minutes ago, WhitmanSampler said:

I tip my hat to your untrendy candor. Take equal parts of Crass Competitiveness, Accidental Affluence, and a dash of Philistine Dilettantism (shaken, not stirred) - now add an Ego/Investment olive and one has the perfect Vulgarity cocktail. I simply cannot see the intellectual/romantic value-added by set registries. 

I don’t “do” illicit mind-altering drugs. Only prescription ones that literally keep me alive. Those and untrendy candor fairly course through my veins and arteries. Unapologetically so. Want PC? Look elsewhere. You’ll not ever find it coming from me.

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39 minutes ago, WhitmanSampler said:

I tip my hat to your untrendy candor. Take equal parts of Crass Competitiveness, Accidental Affluence, and a dash of Philistine Dilettantism (shaken, not stirred) - now add an Ego/Investment olive and one has the perfect Vulgarity cocktail. I simply cannot see the intellectual/romantic value-added by set registries. 

Maybe not COMPETITIVE set registries but set registries in themselves are a great way to catalog and share your collection  . The fact that they now allow pcgs coins is not my favorite but even that helps with  cataloging your set.

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45 minutes ago, Crruisercharlie said:

Maybe not COMPETITIVE set registries but set registries in themselves are a great way to catalog and share your collection  . The fact that they now allow pcgs coins is not my favorite but even that helps with  cataloging your set.

If you are referring to the Collector’s Society database (which I believe predates registries), I agree. It’s a very useful tool. But most NGCers conflate that feature with registries. They are NOT the same thing. All registry coins are in a Collector’s  Society database, but NOT vice versa. Registries are a subset of the Collector’s Society database. Sorry to use a mathematical term of art,

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On 11/11/2020 at 9:36 AM, Coinbuf said:

I would love for the custom sets to get more love from both collectors and NGC by expanding its reach and encompassing more of the material in the marketplace.  Custom sets are a fantastic way to show a collection in an unconventional format that could be enhanced by the inclusion of all coins slabbed or raw.

They need to implement them in the new / updated registry and modernize the system. I think that would help.

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On 10/28/2020 at 12:21 PM, World Colonial said:

It seems to be from the limited review I have done.  Maybe it makes sense within a series but it's designed to give maximum weight to very common ultra-modern coins.

The funny thing is it can't be arbitrary if it is deliberately and consistently designed to achieve specific goal. lol 

The point system is very much (IMO) designed to emphasize certain popular modern sets / categories and use those popular categories to draw in new users and encourage participation.

I will never forget what happened with the Presidential Dollars when they first started coming out in 2007. NGC put very high point values on them and put heavy point premiums on coins with the "First Day of Issue (FDI)" label / designation. After a couple of years, around 2010 or 2011, the hype and enthusiasm for the series had faded. NGC severely cut the point values on these coins around that time - I think the point values of many issues dropped by 50-75%. The values of the coins on eBay - especially FDI designated coins - tanked / totally crapped the bed. I think the points were cut and then the prices tanked but it could have been the other way around... it has been 10 years now and I forget that detail. The screaming from people who had held the top pop coins and the top sets in those categories was legendary. lol 

This place is ultimately a marketing and business development tool and the points system is designed to further that goal. Which is why I 100% agree with you that the overall points rankings are unworthy or a 2nd thought. At best you can hope that the points system results in the best overall set within a category getting the #1 spot. But even that is questionable in some categories / parts of the registry.

On 10/28/2020 at 11:41 AM, World Colonial said:

there are competing registries which both award winners where by common sense only one set can be "best

There are other people that have commented on this but, I think where this place is at its best is with the signature / custom sets, the "Most Creative" award, the "Best Presented" award, the "Most Informative" award. Those kinds of things. It was a good feeling to get "Best Presented" on the 1932 set after all the work that went into that and the many many attempts I've made over the years at taking pictures of those coins. I've greatly appreciated the Journal award every time I've been given it, even though it has little to do with my collection and is more about my writing and my ability to tell a story.

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1 hour ago, Revenant said:

I will never forget what happened with the Presidential Dollars when they first started coming out in 2007. NGC put very high point values on them and put heavy point premiums on coins with the "First Day of Issue (FDI)" label / designation. After a couple of years, around 2010 or 2011, the hype and enthusiasm for the series had faded. NGC severely cut the point values on these coins around that time - I think the point values of many issues dropped by 50-75%. The values of the coins on eBay - especially FDI designated coins - tanked / totally crapped the bed. I think the points were cut and then the prices tanked but it could have been the other way around... it has been 10 years now and I forget that detail. The screaming from people who had held the top pop coins and the top sets in those categories was legendary. lol 

While I do not recall this series as I dont own or buy them; the registry points are very closely tied to value.  There are other factors involved in the whole matrix that NGC uses to assign points but price (I believe this is biased on the price guide) is a large part of the equation.  Again I don't have the specifics but I would bet that the prices tanked and because those are such a large part of the calc the registry points fell off the cliff shortly after.

Despite what @World Colonial thinks the registry is not designed to give the lion's share of points only to "very common ultra-modern coins" on some arbitrary dart board style theory.  No, again points are largely driven by price and price is driven by marketplace demand.  Using your example as you noted those came out of the gates running and garnered lots of attention which drove the prices way up.  Once the marketplace absorbed the series and the hoopla died down so did the prices and the registry points came back into line with the normal market value.  This cycle happens with many new releases but it all has to do with market value not some tin foil hat conspiracy theory that is designed to reward modern coins. 

 

Edited by Coinbuf
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5 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

While I do not recall this series as I dont own or buy them; the registry points are very closely tied to value.  There are other factors involved in the whole matrix that NGC uses to assign points but price (I believe this is biased on the price guide) is a large part of the equation.  Again I don't have the specifics but I would bet that the prices tanked and because those are such a large part of the calc the registry points fell off the cliff shortly after.

Despite what @World Colonial thinks the registry is not designed to give the lion's share of points only to "very common ultra-modern coins" on some arbitrary dart board style theory.  No, again points are largely driven by price and price is driven by marketplace demand.  Using your example as you noted those came out of the gates running and garnered lots of attention which drove the prices way up.  Once the marketplace absorbed the series and the hoopla died down so did the prices and the registry points came back into line with the normal market value.  This cycle happens with many new releases but it all has to do with market value not some tin foil hat conspiracy theory that is designed to reward modern coins. 

 

I was using the series as an example.  What you write makes sense since I presume that NGC or PCGS assign the points by formula.

Not that I care, since winning one of these awards isn't even an accomplishment.  It's the coin collecting equivalent of receiving a participation trophy just for showing up.

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8 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

This cycle happens with many new releases but it all has to do with market value not some tin foil hat conspiracy theory that is designed to reward modern coins. 

This is very true, but I think there is a bias towards some series that are more popular or in the news or more approachable to new people with the idea of attracting new people to join and encouraging more registry participation. I'm not even really saying this is a bad thing - in part because I don't really care about the overall rankings and so I don't care if they're accurate as long as scoring in a category is reasonably accurate / consistent. 

As another bit to support this - Didn't NGC introduce the idea of "non-competitive slots" for very rare, hard to get, expensive coins specifically with the idea of making it easier for lower budget people to compete with people with some of these very expensive coins in some categories.

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5 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

 

Not that I care, since winning one of these awards isn't even an accomplishment.  It's the coin collecting equivalent of receiving a participation trophy just for showing up.

Your statement is not only rude and callous it is completely incorrect.  Many collectors spend a vast amount of time to find and choose the coins they collect, that they happen to receive an award is not even remotely close to a participation trophy.  Not every collector that uses the registry is trying to assert how big an appendage he has or is driven by an award, seriously just an insanely stupid thing to say by painting all registry participants with such a broad brush.

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11 minutes ago, Revenant said:

This is very true, but I think there is a bias towards some series that are more popular or in the news or more approachable to new people with the idea of attracting new people to join and encouraging more registry participation. I'm not even really saying this is a bad thing - in part because I don't really care about the overall rankings and so I don't care if they're accurate as long as scoring in a category is reasonably accurate / consistent. 

As another bit to support this - Didn't NGC introduce the idea of "non-competitive slots" for very rare, hard to get, expensive coins specifically with the idea of making it easier for lower budget people to compete with people with some of these very expensive coins in some categories.

If there is a bias its out in the general marketplace, collectors are not always rational and the registry with its tie to value and market demand is just following the market.  I cannot say that I've ever seen a time that any TPG was biased to a series.  That is not to say that TPG's have not made announcements about new releases and perhaps added to the hype, seems like good business to encourage submissions to me; but that is not what I would call biased.  As to the "non-competitive slots" I do not recall ever seeing that but perhaps I missed it.  Sorta makes sense in some respect, after all there is a finite amount of the handful of truly ultra rare coins.

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1 minute ago, Coinbuf said:

Sorta makes sense in some respect, after all there is a finite amount of the handful of truly ultra rare coins.

Yeah. Everything here makes sense really when you look at it from the right perspective / have the right information. You may be right about there being no bias towards certain categories or sets because there's at least a few important unknowns in my thinking - I don't know what pricing data they use, what all the use when that primary reference doesn't list a price and I don't know their algorithm or how / if it varies from category to category or if it even has the kind of tunable factors they would need to make it vary from one category / series to another based on something other than book value. Perception is a funny thing and mine might well be wrong.

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On 10/28/2020 at 12:02 PM, VKurtB said:

1) changed every so often, and 2) based roughly on difficulty of acquisition. Am I wrong?

They will sometimes review things on their own - especially if they see that the value of a series has gone way up or down - but more often it happens when people ask them to review a category's scoring. I think rarity / difficulty to obtain is a part of it but value / price guide is a big part of it, but ideally you'd expect those to correlate.

Edited by Revenant
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45 minutes ago, Revenant said:

They will sometimes review things on their own - especially if they see that the value of a series has gone way up or down - but more often it happens when people ask them to review a category's scoring. I think rarity / difficulty to obtain is a part of it but value / price guide is a big part of it, but ideally you'd expect those to correlate.

Absolutely. 

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14 hours ago, World Colonial said:

Not that I care, since winning one of these awards isn't even an accomplishment.  It's the coin collecting equivalent of receiving a participation trophy just for showing up.

And there it is in a nutshell.  I would say you care enough to dump on the whole registry system and its participants.   

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1 hour ago, scopru said:

 

And there it is in a nutshell.  I would say you care enough to dump on the whole registry system and its participants.   

Wasn't dumping on anything.  It's only US collectors and US culture that would ever think that completing a collection which can be bought in one day and which has no practical difference from numerous others is anything else.

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15 hours ago, Coinbuf said:

Your statement is not only rude and callous it is completely incorrect.  Many collectors spend a vast amount of time to find and choose the coins they collect, that they happen to receive an award is not even remotely close to a participation trophy.  Not every collector that uses the registry is trying to assert how big an appendage he has or is driven by an award, seriously just an insanely stupid thing to say by painting all registry participants with such a broad brush.

Not here to please you.  I never said anyone's collection isn't worth collecting.

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6 hours ago, World Colonial said:

Not here to please you.  I never said anyone's collection isn't worth collecting.

Another incorrect statement, all your posts revolve around bashing US coin collectors, collecting style, and by extension their collections (which by the way is against the forum rules).   Your constant bashing of US coin collectors here every day comes off as petty, and condescending, if that is who you are then so be it.  It just seems to me that you could be doing much more with your time here than to constantly bash other collectors because they are collecting in a way that is different than yours.

Edited by Coinbuf
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18 hours ago, World Colonial said:

It's the coin collecting equivalent of receiving a participation trophy just for showing up.

So the ultimate 21st Century system then?

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I don't know that anyone who isn't a participant in a Set Registry can fully understand or appreciate what those of us who are, go through.  By way of analogy: Now that a part of one of the "greatest-ever" compilations, the Bob R. Simpson collection, has been dispersed to the four corners of the Earth, seemingly never to be reunited again, imagine the resolve, discipline and dedication required to reassemble that collection again. As one seller texted me after I made an ultimately unsuccessful bid to acquire a coin at a more moderate price:  "How badly do you want it?" The appeal of a Set Registry is setting a goal for one's self and following it through to completion, however long it takes, whatever the cost, irrespective of motive.

[That being said, if anyone knows the present whereabouts of a 1903 French 20-franc gold rooster grading MS-64, or better, I'd be very much obliged.]

 

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4 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

"How badly do you want it?"

Also known as BOHICA. I'll expand the abbreviation if you insist, but I figure most New Yorkers already know it.

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13 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

if anyone knows the present whereabouts of a 1903 French 20-franc gold rooster grading MS-64, or better, I'd be very much obliged.]

Would it be too smart-butted to suggest there might be raw ones pretty nice in, ohhh, I dunno, FRANCE?!?! When we all get de-COVID-ized, maybe you could get on a plane? That's what I'd do if I were you. The basic problem you have here is like American bullion coins here. There are probably GAZILLIONS of them that have never seen a grading firm.

 

One possibility: 

International Collectible Fair
Maubeuge, Hauts-de-France, France

Edited by VKurtB
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5 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Also known as BOHICA. I'll expand the abbreviation if you insist, but I figure most New Yorkers already know it.

Oh, boriqua! A person from Puerto Rico by birth or descent. 😉  

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