Get Ready for the 2020 NGC Registry Awards!
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Ready? I'm excited! Ooh, ooh, ooh.  …   …  … Okay, I'm over it now.

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...just an insight, mostly because its a dreary day and im bored, registry sets are in fact positive adjuncts to the numismatic hobby, they do not take away from or marginalize coin collecting in any way, they do in a limited way promote collecting, true both pcgs and ngc promote their respective registries and make supplemental money from those promotions due to the requirement that coins submitted must be slabbed and certified, hence more money in their tpg pockets...many if not most collectors that participate in registries have their coins certified anyway, the registries are basically free if u r already a member and pose no additional expense to the collector...seeing ones collections represented on a registry page is much like looking at ones collection in Whitman blue boards in the olden days, ditto filling that last slot on a registry page is like filling that last hole in the board...sure there is a sense of competition and completeness, neither a negative...the real aspect of registries that is most overlooked is the effort, commitment, professionalism and dedication to the collector by the staffs that administer and maintain the registries, to these individuals I salute u...VKB pooh-poohing the registries serves no purpose to himself, other collectors or the hobby...his comments will not prevent anyone from joining a registry nor cause anyone to leave a registry anymore than mine will...no one is forced to participate, its just a matter of personal choice and perhaps a sense of personal achievement and feeling good about your chosen hobby, not much these days offers such positive attributes.... 

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I keep records of my own coins but I do like the registry as another way to view a certain series. There are some awesome sets in the registries. Mine will never get to those ranks or see any awards but the awards just bring out the awesome sets again for those that haven't seen them. 

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21 hours ago, zadok said:

...just an insight, mostly because its a dreary day and im bored, registry sets are in fact positive adjuncts to the numismatic hobby, they do not take away from or marginalize coin collecting in any way, they do in a limited way promote collecting, true both pcgs and ngc promote their respective registries and make supplemental money from those promotions due to the requirement that coins submitted must be slabbed and certified, hence more money in their tpg pockets...many if not most collectors that participate in registries have their coins certified anyway, the registries are basically free if u r already a member and pose no additional expense to the collector...seeing ones collections represented on a registry page is much like looking at ones collection in Whitman blue boards in the olden days, ditto filling that last slot on a registry page is like filling that last hole in the board...sure there is a sense of competition and completeness, neither a negative...the real aspect of registries that is most overlooked is the effort, commitment, professionalism and dedication to the collector by the staffs that administer and maintain the registries, to these individuals I salute u...VKB pooh-poohing the registries serves no purpose to himself, other collectors or the hobby...his comments will not prevent anyone from joining a registry nor cause anyone to leave a registry anymore than mine will...no one is forced to participate, its just a matter of personal choice and perhaps a sense of personal achievement and feeling good about your chosen hobby, not much these days offers such positive attributes.... 

I have to admit, making coin collecting a "competitive sport" is something that would absolutely never have occurred to me, and frankly, I still see it as kind of bizarre. 

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5 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

I have to admit, making coin collecting a "competitive sport" is something that would absolutely never have occurred to me, and frankly, I still see it as kind of bizarre. 

I find it bizarre because the 1) point system is arbitrary 2) there are competing registries which both award winners where by common sense only one set can be "best" 3) there is no practical difference between most of the highest ranked sets for most US series 4) there are so many sets to compete in it dilutes any sense of accomplishment and 5) particularly outside of US coinage, the best sets almost never compete anyway.

But yes, it does make some or many feel better about their collecting.

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22 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

1) point system is arbitrary

Is it? I don't know because I don't follow it very closely at all. I always assumed it was both 1) changed every so often, and 2) based roughly on difficulty of acquisition. Am I wrong?

Edited by VKurtB

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17 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Is it? I don't know because I don't follow it very closely at all. I always assumed it was both 1) changed every so often, and 2) based roughly on difficulty of acquisition. Am I wrong?

It seems to be from the limited review I have done.  Maybe it makes sense within a series but it's designed to give maximum weight to very common ultra-modern coins.

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6 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

It seems to be from the limited review I have done.  Maybe it makes sense within a series but it's designed to give maximum weight to very common ultra-modern coins.

Let's think a second or two why that may be - perhaps extraordinarily few slabbed examples of some common ultra-moderns? Which, if true, becomes the case for frequent updates as that changes. Regardless, Registries seem to be a "revenue enhancer" for both TPGS.

I collect to maximize my heir's financial fortunes, not my TPGS. Sorry guys.

BTW, I also collect to "tell stories" with competitive exhibits with a theme.

Edited by VKurtB

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15 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

I collect to maximize my heir's financial fortunes

I am sure you have other reasons higher on the list of "why I collect"  than this.  

Edited by scopru

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5 minutes ago, scopru said:

I am sure you have other reasons higher on the list of "why I collect"  than this.  

Others? Yes. MORE important? Not so sure. I know how to "buy low and sell high". I collect as a contrarian to conventional wisdom. Whatever is "not hot" is my target. More to the point, whatever IS hot right now, I avoid like the plague.

Edited by VKurtB

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45 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Let's think a second or two why that may be - perhaps extraordinarily few slabbed examples of some common ultra-moderns? Which, if true, becomes the case for frequent updates as that changes. Regardless, Registries seem to be a "revenue enhancer" for both TPGS.

It's not just the low number graded, though this is a factor.  Last I checked (years ago), the points awarded were totally disproportionate to anything remotely "reasonable".  This leaves the obvious motivation to encourage submissions so that these participants can accumulate points to rank higher than those who have far scarcer coins overwhelmingly preferred by most collectors.  (There is or was an overall ranking for total registry points across all sets.)

28 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Others? Yes. MORE important? Not so sure. I know how to "buy low and sell high". I collect as a contrarian to conventional wisdom. Whatever is "not hot" is my target. More to the point, whatever IS hot right now, I avoid like the plague.

Interesting and not a criticism.  I find it interesting because I infer you have a lot more interest in the coin as the coin than most I encounter on coin forums.  Yet supposedly, some of these others who buy coins in expensive plastic are more interested in the coin than the price or the holder.  I don't think so.

Me, I never became a collector to make money.  I did so with my South Africa collection (a lot for most collectors) by pure accident but dumped most of it during the bubble because I wasn't interested in paying much higher prices and didn't like it enough to lose the windfall.  I just wished I had dumped most everything I have now but kept it with the intent to buy what I sold back later.  I never did.

What I collect now, I'd never buy if I were financially motivated.  Not trying to lose money but the main thing I mind is not getting what I paid for, as in buying "details" coins ungraded mostly due to arbitrary TPG standards of "market acceptability" since I can't inspect any of the coins I buy directly first.

I would prefer to leave my collection as a heirloom asset, but don't have anyone who wants it for what it is, at least now.  I also expect most coins of any noticeable value to be big losers when the current financial mania ends, which it will eventually.

Edited by World Colonial

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9 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

It's not just the low number graded, though this is a factor.  Last I checked (years ago), the points awarded were totally disproportionate to anything remotely "reasonable".  This leaves the obvious motivation to encourage submissions so that these participants can accumulate points to rank higher than those who have far scarcer coins overwhelmingly preferred by most collectors.  (There is or was an overall ranking for total registry points across all sets.)

Interesting and not a criticism.  I find it interesting because I infer you have a lot more interest in the coin as the coin than most I encounter on coin forums.  Yet supposedly, some of these others who buy coins in expensive plastic are more interested in the coin than the price or the holder.  I don't think so.

Me, I never became a collector to make money.  I did so with my South Africa collection (a lot for most collectors) by pure accident but dumped most of it during the bubble because I wasn't interested in paying much higher prices and didn't like it enough to lose the windfall.  I just wished I had dumped most everything I have now but kept it with the intent to buy what I sold back later.  I never did.

What I collect now, I'd never buy if I were financially motivated.  Not trying to lose money but the main thing I mind is not getting what I paid for, as in buying "details" coins ungraded mostly due to arbitrary TPG standards of "market acceptability" since I can't inspect any of the coins I buy directly first.

I would prefer to leave my collection as a heirloom asset, but don't have anyone who wants it for what it is, at least now.  I also expect most coins of any noticeable value to be big losers when the current financial mania ends, which it will eventually.

My son, my only heir, is perhaps more of a coin nut than I am, and he is a certified ANA Exhibit Judge in European coins. He achieved that at age 19. He has a very "important" collection of Soviet Union coins. Every series I collect is with an eye to maximize HIS future income from them. If I see a series that I believe has future potential, I am drawn to it like a moth to a light source. Other than maintaining my sets each year, my U.S. collecting has fallen off considerably, early MS Washington Quarters excepted (4 remaining). Most of my current work that is for me, is Swiss, British, and Vatican. I send my kid pictures every time I see a Soviet piece he might need.

Keep in mind, my "life expectancy", given my specific medical history, is now a negative number.

Edited by VKurtB

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16 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

since I can't inspect any of the coins I buy directly first.

I don't and won't buy ANY coin I can't inspect first, at least on the secondary market. The only way I buy "remotely" is from mints, at least five of them.

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The Vatican has some very beautiful coins to me eyes.  

My kids thus far have a limited interest my collection.  

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2 minutes ago, scopru said:

The Vatican has some very beautiful coins to me eyes.  

My kids thus far have a limited interest my collection.  

The cool thing about Vatican coins are that they're almost universally nicely struck and not mishandled. No one wants to tick off "the boss".

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49 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

No one wants to tick off "the boss".

Truer words never spoken 

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Registry participants encompass a wide range of reasons for participating, the competitive aspect is only one of those reasons.  Filling albums and book pages is fun but in the digital age some collectors enjoy the ability to see and share collections in a way that reaches farther than the local coin club.  Also the ever growing world of slabbed coins made filling albums difficult as it was a financial step backward to crack coins out to fill holes.  So the registry allows for the virtual hole filling experience without all the broken plastic and money lost doing so.  As long as participants don't allow the fever to push them into buying over their financial abilities and accept that they may never win anything and simply enjoy viewing and sharing it can (and is for me) a very enjoyable experience.  I know that I will never have the wallet to compete in any of the large and very contested series but that does not concern me in the least, I buy what I like and at the level I'm comfortable for the goals I have set for myself.

I would also contend that coin collecting has always been competitive in some way, perhaps in days past one collector would see the cabinet of another and be impressed with his coins.  That may have motivated him/her to find a better example to one-up the other guy, even if the other guy never knew or saw his friend's new better coin.  The registry and the visibility of the internet just brings that aspect to the forefront.

And yes there is a financial benefit to the TPG's, it seems obvious to me that TPG's would not run them if there were no upside in them for the TPG.

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6 hours ago, VKurtB said:

I have to admit, making coin collecting a "competitive sport" is something that would absolutely never have occurred to me, and frankly, I still see it as kind of bizarre. 

Coin collecting in and of itself is fine.  Where it turned infuriatingly bizarre was discovering I was already heavily vested in one brand when I stumbled across something called a Set Registry and realized I had no choice but to become the very slave to a brand Coinbuf frequently rails against AND pay the higher prices demanded of its European counterparts because that's where all the earlier dates could be found. And for what, the privilege of saying I had the #1 position? For how long?  Until someone somewhere, seized with an obsession to outdo me, changes everything in an eye blink by making one well-positioned, prohibitively expensive acquisition most likely via an auction. That's not only bizarre. That's pure insanity!

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...no one ever said that coin collectors were sane...

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On 10/28/2020 at 11:24 PM, zadok said:

...no one ever said that coin collectors were sane...

Amen. We are wacked out pups, for darned sure.

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On 10/28/2020 at 10:39 AM, scopru said:

I am sure you have other reasons higher on the list of "why I collect"  than this.  

Why is it no one has commented on custom sets. That's where the really good sets are. The uniqueness of these set are outstanding. Here you can find complete sets that don't fall into the US competitive realm. Many of us who also collect world coins - I'm really into canadian coins and pre-confederation tokens- only have the custom sets to display our sets. I have some high ranking US sets but my favorite set is my canadian 1844 Bank of Montreal 1/2 penny token custom set.

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I would love for the custom sets to get more love from both collectors and NGC by expanding its reach and encompassing more of the material in the marketplace.  Custom sets are a fantastic way to show a collection in an unconventional format that could be enhanced by the inclusion of all coins slabbed or raw.

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20 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

I would love for the custom sets to get more love from both collectors and NGC by expanding its reach and encompassing more of the material in the marketplace.  Custom sets are a fantastic way to show a collection in an unconventional format that could be enhanced by the inclusion of all coins slabbed or raw.

When you use “raw” in the same thought as a registry of any kind, you’re going off into la-la land. It’s ALL about revenue for the registry hosting TPGS. And it will ever be so.

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4 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

When you use “raw” in the same thought as a registry of any kind, you’re going off into la-la land. It’s ALL about revenue for the registry hosting TPGS. And it will ever be so.

There is one registry that currently allows the use of raw coins, so the idea is not without precedence.

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1 minute ago, Coinbuf said:

There is one registry that currently allows the use of raw coins, so the idea is not without precedence.

But that IS without companion. 

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When you add a coin to a custom set you can select "Want" instead of "Own" and fill that new slot with images and notes for your raw coin.  I plan to do that for several new crowns that I've picked up but haven't yet sent in for certification.

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1 minute ago, jgenn said:

When you add a coin to a custom set you can select "Want" instead of "Own" and fill that new slot with images and notes for your raw coin.  I plan to do that for several new crowns that I've picked up but haven't yet sent in for certification.

That “want” status is a pure good, and highly of value.

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2 minutes ago, jgenn said:

When you add a coin to a custom set you can select "Want" instead of "Own" and fill that new slot with images and notes for your raw coin.  I plan to do that for several new crowns that I've picked up but haven't yet sent in for certification.

really? Cuz there's a LOT of stuff I want.... "gee, he's got an ultra-high relief St. Guaden's Double Eagle on his income?"... is it possible to say you want multiples of something?.... "I never knew that there were that many 1913 liberty head nickels!"

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