Lighting techniques for coin photography - updated 1 1

[Insider]

Yikes!  I just tried to post an image Emailed to me from the camera and it will not open!  Color me a loser so far .  I'll need to get someone familiar with our system to allow me to copy and paste the images in case my terms are met  and we get to play: "Tipped  or Not Tipped ."  

[brg5658]

1 hour ago, Insider said:

Yikes!  I just tried to post an image Emailed to me from the camera and it will not open!  Color me a loser so far .  I'll need to get someone familiar with our system to allow me to copy and paste the images in case my terms are met  and we get to play: "Tipped  or Not Tipped ."  

Please post your own thread with these pictures.  I will see the thread.  

[ldhair]

Skip. I don't think many will care to play your games any longer.

I'll play but several already have you on ignore and won't see your post.

You might get more replies if you started a new fresh thread. 

[Henri Charriere]

27 minutes ago, ldhair said:

I'll play but several already have you on ignore and won't see your post.

And how, may I ask, would you know that???

[Insider]

13 hours ago, brg5658 said:

Please post your own thread with these pictures.  I will see the thread.  

Agree.  I apologize for "high-jacking" your informative thread. 

However, you disagreed with a friendly SUGGESTION I made for everyone here.  The author of a book you recommended made the same suggestion, you refused to try it because you didn't wish to alter your setup, then eventually suggested the same result we both suggested could be accomplished by altering your setup (it could).   Worst of all, I'm turned into the bad guy because I will not quit attempting to get you to RETRACT your disagreement. 

Unfortunately, as with our other disagreements, no answers from you are forthcoming.     

I'll post my images in a GTG format when I can copy them.  I've turned over a new leaf.    I don't wish to make anyone feel foolish when they cannot tell if the coin was angled to the lens or not when photographed (with no adjustment made to the lighting).

Until our next discussion, thanks to all posters for the photography lesson!     

[brg5658]

1 hour ago, Insider said:

Agree.  I apologize for "high-jacking" your informative thread. 

However, you disagreed with a friendly SUGGESTION I made for everyone here.  The author of a book you recommended made the same suggestion, you refused to try it because you didn't wish to alter your setup, then eventually suggested the same result we both suggested could be accomplished by altering your setup (it could).   Worst of all, I'm turned into the bad guy because I will not quit attempting to get you to RETRACT your disagreement. 

Unfortunately, as with our other disagreements, no answers from you are forthcoming.     

I'll post my images in a GTG format when I can copy them.  I've turned over a new leaf.    I don't wish to make anyone feel foolish when they cannot tell if the coin was angled to the lens or not when photographed (with no adjustment made to the lighting).

Until our next discussion, thanks to all posters for the photography lesson!     

I will not retract my disagreement, because I strongly disagree with you.  If you are trying to teach someone to take quality photos, you don't start with the 2-3 pages of the "advanced" sub-section of a book - a section very limited to very specific and quirky examples of utility.  I'd argue less than 1% of photos of coins benefit by tilting.  We're not here to discuss the fringe methods, the intent of my post was to offer lighting advice for most coin photographs.

You make it seem as though because the word "tilting' was mentioned in Goodman's book you are somehow vindicated.  It does not vindicate or support your suggestion.  All of the limitations mentioned by those of us here are also mentioned by Goodman, and tilting a coin into a light source is not a recommended method of photographing a coin.  Period.

No one turned you into a "bad guy" (is this your "snowflake" coming through?).  Those of us with actual experience in taking quality coin photos simply told you why what you were suggesting was not what would benefit most.  I have always offered answers (and very detailed ones) - so I have no clue what you're complaining about with my supposed lack of "forthcoming" answers.  That's a bald-faced lie.  I spent a good amount of time explaining depth of field to you, with actual measurements and scientific quantities - you completely ignored it and acted as though you'd ignore physics and optics laws in favor of your own experiments.  Stubborn as usual.

[Insider]

2 hours ago, brg5658 said:

I will not retract my disagreement, because I strongly disagree with you.  If you are trying to teach someone to take quality photos, you don't start with the 2-3 pages of the "advanced" sub-section of a book - a section very limited to very specific and quirky examples of utility.  I'd argue less than 1% of photos of coins benefit by tilting.  We're not here to discuss the fringe methods, the intent of my post was to offer lighting advice for most coin photographs.

You make it seem as though because the word "tilting' was mentioned in Goodman's book you are somehow vindicated.  It does not vindicate or support your suggestion.  All of the limitations mentioned by those of us here are also mentioned by Goodman, and tilting a coin into a light source is not a recommended method of photographing a coin.  Period.

No one turned you into a "bad guy" (is this your "snowflake" coming through?).  Those of us with actual experience in taking quality coin photos simply told you why what you were suggesting was not what would benefit most.  I have always offered answers (and very detailed ones) - so I have no clue what you're complaining about with my supposed lack of "forthcoming" answers.  That's a bald-faced lie.  I spent a good amount of time explaining depth of field to you, with actual measurements and scientific quantities - you completely ignored it and acted as though you'd ignore physics and optics laws in favor of your own experiments.  Stubborn as usual.

 Well that explains it. "All of the limitations mentioned by those of us here are also mentioned by Goodman, and tilting a coin into a light source is not a recommended method of photographing a coin.  Period."  You posted about "ALL."  While "ALL" may be the subject of your OP,  I posted ONLY about tipping the coin exactly as we do when examining it in hand. That's because informed and knowledgeable numismatists far above my pay grade recommend that all of us tip (and rotate) a coin in the light. 

I am at a total loss to discover why something that works perfectly and is highly recommended (tipping a coin during examination) is virtually never to be done while taking its image.  I've been imaging coins using my microscopes for almost fifty years and I have found that the best way to replicate what I am trying to capture is to tip the coin at least 80% of the time.    

I quoted the advanced section of the book YOU recommended because after reading your OP and seeing your images, I was under the impression that you were an "advanced" photographer. The book also proved that I was not pulling "fluff" out of the air. 

PS  LOL, I'm sure you know the discussion where you refused to defend any of your misguided and uninformed opinions.  You just continued to add more nonsense.  When anyone disagrees with me about anything (this thread is an example) I'm ready to defend my opinion AND change it if I become more informed. 

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2020 at 2:20 PM, Insider said:

informed and knowledgeable numismatists far above my pay grade recommend that all of us tip (and rotate) a coin in the light.

Yes, but NOT to photograph it, with one caveat. If there ever becomes a universally agreed upon, and not data-hoggish, moving picture format, then tilt away. Until then, no! You seem to desire a "one way fits both" method of both examining AND photographing a coin. No such thing exists at this point, and it may never exist. That is a concise way of explaining why I would NEVER EVER buy ANY coin from ANY photograph. Photographs can both reveal and hide important details, and the more talented the photographer, the more important and true that becomes.

Example: At the 2018 Philadelphia ANA show, there was a coin I needed/wanted for a virtual 7070 set, but it looked like a piece of *spoon* in the catalog photo. I went to the lot viewing room, and that sucker was GORGEOUS for its grade. I swore off ever depending on photos of coins at that instant and have never looked back. In my hand, or I ain't even CONSIDERING buying it. I spent over 30 years in the photographic "bidness", and what I know MOST about it is its LIMITATIONS. Just one more reason I’m an über-critic of Internet numismatics as practiced these days. More and more sellers are using intentionally deceptive photos. 

Edited November 14, 2020 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

21 hours ago, VKurtB said:

That is why I would NEVER EVER buy ANY coin from ANY photograph....

In my hand, or I ain't even CONSIDERING buying it....

More and more sellers are using intentionally deceptive photos. 

That's the beauty of TPGS. No need for photographs. No need to have anything in hand. (Aren't you the chap who said adapt and embrace the change?)  If a reputable member/seller, like Ratzie33, tells me he's got a certified 1902 Rooster at MS-64, or better, all I need to know is how much, and where to send the money. Makes no difference whether NGC or PCGS (with or w/o state-of-the-art NFC [chip] technology). Piece of cake. Sho nuff.

[VKurtB]

5 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

That's the beauty of TPGS. No need for photographs. No need to have anything in hand. (Aren't you the chap who said adapt and embrace the change?)  If a reputable member/seller, like Ratzie33, tells me he's got a certified 1902 Rooster at MS-64, or better, all I need to know is how much, and where to send the money. Makes no difference whether NGC or PCGS (with or w/o state-of-the-art NFC [chip] technology). Piece of cake. Sho nuff.

I know you do “sight unseen” purchases of coins based on TPGS grades alone. I never have and I never shall.

[Henri Charriere]

2 hours ago, VKurtB said:

I know you do “sight unseen” purchases of coins based on TPGS grades alone. I never have and I never shall.

They say never say never but you've racked up a significant number of road trip and frequent flyer miles to back up your assertion and er, uh, prognostication.  I've always been a "Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained" type of bloke but I suppose being risk-averse means never having to say you're sorry.  Can't argue with success.

[VKurtB]

18 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

They say never say never but you've racked up a significant number of road trip and frequent flyer miles to back up your assertion and er, uh, prognostication.  I've always been a "Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained" type of bloke but I suppose being risk-averse means never having to say you're sorry.  Can't argue with success.

I put my money where my mouth and keyboard are. I don’t do online purchasing with anyone but mints, and I travel extensively. 

[Henri Charriere]

9 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

I put my money where my mouth and keyboard are. I don’t do online purchasing with anyone but mints, and I travel extensively. 

Godspeed!

[VKurtB]

2 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Godspeed!

And I even travel to mints! When people start asking me for “links”, I think I’m gonna start saying, “the airport and my own eyes”.

Edited November 15, 2020 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

Just now, VKurtB said:

And I even travel to mints!

Can't wait to see your "Report from Dahlonega," when that time comes.

[VKurtB]

On 11/15/2020 at 12:13 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Can't wait to see your "Report from Dahlonega," when that time comes.

These days Dahlonega is a “destination” for romantic Georgia weddings. Most people who go there are unaware there was a mint there. 

[Gluggo]

Thank you for your excellent illustration on the defusing using the Jansco lights.   I will look that over and attempt to reproduce them as ai use the Jansco light set up.  You have some good talent on your drawing skills must be a special program your using to draw them out?  Again thank you much.  

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/26/2020 at 11:49 AM, brg5658 said:

t's not always possible to get the "perfect" shot -

I agree.  That's why I leave the coin pics to NGC and ATS.  That and I'm also lazy and I loaned my really neat and expensive camera to my brother in law.    

Edited January 30, 2021 by Alex in PA.

[Gluggo]

Here is my current coin photography set up I hope you won’t mind.  But some of the equipment I believe is pretty modern.  I picked up a new type Jansco light seems to work well but it’s not in this picture.  Also a new Cannon EF 10m f/2.8 L IS USM Lens but that is currently enroute.  

FYI all my pictures is for my personal use once I take a picture it get lost in my computer to be seen again once in a century.  You can see how I am using my Jansco light looking forward to try your method.  

The Camera stand is a System X from Ray who has been very instrumental in helping me on my quest for taking pictures on my coins.  

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Gluggo
To capture the correct version of the camera stand I purchased from Ray.