US mint too high for my blood!
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Well, I've subscribed to the new 50 State Termite Species series. Each coin features a termite prevalent in one of the 50 states. But the big feature is that the coins are active -- they slowly gnaw at the wood framing of your home until it all crashes down.

Also anticipating the 50 State Snake quarters, especially the Florida Python - and wondering if it will be the Monty Python or the Full Monty....

;)

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47 minutes ago, RWB said:

Well, I've subscribed to the new 50 State Termite Species series. Each coin features a termite prevalent in one of the 50 states. But the big feature is that the coins are active -- they slowly gnaw at the wood framing of your home until it all crashes down.

Also anticipating the 50 State Snake quarters, especially the Florida Python - and wondering if it will be the Monty Python or the Full Monty....

;)

Yeah, but produce them in silver and watch people lose their minds getting them. /eye roll

The Pennsylvania State Snake image could be my old now departed cat dragging home a dead copperhead by the neck. She made it to 20 years. From the size of him, I'd judge the snake died at 1-2. She was one badass hunting cat.

The Termite Series should come with a collectible hardwood frame. When the frame is gone, your set is complete.

Edited by VKurtB
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3 hours ago, VKurtB said:

I hadn't read that they were thinking of selling bullion directly to "consumer/collectors". Where did you read that? Be careful about that idea. It WILL do to bullion what has happened to numismatic products.

There was a US Mint survey sent out to customers surveying them about the idea. There is a thread ATS. 

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39 minutes ago, olympicsos said:

There is a thread ATS.

[exasperated sigh] Okayeeeee, if I must. Gee whiz. Try to keep some semblance of standards and THIS pops up. ;)

Edited by VKurtB
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51 minutes ago, olympicsos said:

There was a US Mint survey sent out to customers surveying them about the idea. There is a thread ATS. 

Unfortunately, most surveys are done to confirm the direction that an organization already wants to go. They don't care about the wants of a customer.

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3 minutes ago, gmarguli said:

Unfortunately, most surveys are done to confirm the direction that an organization already wants to go. They don't care about the wants of a customer.

With the US Mint, the result of their monopoly.  Keep on doing more of the same until it results in complete failure.

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2 hours ago, RWB said:

Well, I've subscribed to the new 50 State Termite Species series. Each coin features a termite prevalent in one of the 50 states. But the big feature is that the coins are active -- they slowly gnaw at the wood framing of your home until it all crashes down.

Also anticipating the 50 State Snake quarters, especially the Florida Python - and wondering if it will be the Monty Python or the Full Monty....

;)

I like the snake idea (I DO NOT like snakes particularly) but I think the New Hampshire Snake Quarter should be the eastern Timber Rattle snake. They would make one coin for each known snake specimen.

I think there are eight known specimen in the state so this one would be rare beyond belief. They are each tagged and monitored every two or three years they are captured by a game warden, checked for health and the electronic tag changed so they can keep track of them. not my dream job for sure.

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I needed to complete my National Parks silver quarter set for 2020. Went to the US Mint site, 60 bux, and not in stock. Got a set from E-bay for 49 bux.  (20AQ)

Looks like we need to just wait and get coins aftermarket for 20% less!

Edited by MorganMan
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Methinks the snake idea was a bit of a play on the da-- US Mint. Still, as you say, not necessarily a bad idea.

I think the mint may have other agendas besides those we normally think of. They may be just as happy to actually shut down some of the lines of products, simplify it and go Canadian with it. May they Rest In Peace if so.

This trick with the WWII privy mark has me about to wretch - totally contrived mintage limits. Then put the enameled basketball coins as a pile-on, and you have? A pile of shei--. And this comes from one that used to be a slave to mint offerings and buy EVERYTHING.

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12 minutes ago, 7.jaguars said:

Methinks the snake idea was a bit of a play on the da-- US Mint. Still, as you say, not necessarily a bad idea.

I think the mint may have other agendas besides those we normally think of. They may be just as happy to actually shut down some of the lines of products, simplify it and go Canadian with it. May they Rest In Peace if so.

This trick with the WWII privy mark has me about to wretch - totally contrived mintage limits. Then put the enameled basketball coins as a pile-on, and you have? A pile of shei--. And this comes from one that used to be a slave to mint offerings and buy EVERYTHING.

Not sure why the 2020 privy mark is any worse than the 2019 W-mint quarters. It's the same subset with the same mintage. All 2020 W's are also privy marked.

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On 10/16/2020 at 2:08 PM, olympicsos said:

There was a US Mint survey sent out to customers surveying them about the idea. There is a thread ATS. 

I wonder if the survey asked them if they would be willing to pay several dollars more over spot for each bullion coin than they do now.  That would probably be the end result.

 

On 10/17/2020 at 5:46 PM, MorganMan said:

And how do they do this?

Someone bought a ton of sets, found they were a drug on the market and couldn't sell them. Needed to free up capital so dumped them at a loss.  Buyer is now selling for much less than the Mint.

Alternate possibility, they bought a ton of sets, have removed the W cents and made their money slabbing/selling those and are now selling off the sets.  Does the ad on ebay say the W cents are included?

On 10/16/2020 at 9:25 AM, olympicsos said:

No wonder why the US Mint is considering selling bullion coins to collectors directly. The US Mint wants the profits for itself rather than bullion coins going through the profit chain between the Mint, the authorized purchasers, the dealers that buy from authorized purchasers, the collector. 

Not much profit there unless they sell the bullion directly to the collectors for considerably more than they sell it to the distributors and that means thousands of small sales instead of a much smaller number of large ones.  Who picks up the shipping for all those small sales the mint or the collector?  If they try to sell to the collector but still sell to the distributors at the old rate they probably won't sell much directly.  The distributors and dealer network absorbs a lot of material  and passes it on to the collectors at a diffused rate and they take the risk of changes in the metal prices.  if the mint sells directly they have to handle that diffusion and they will constantly be having to change their prices constantly.  The Mint considered all that back in 1985 and decided it wasn't worth the headache and that was why they went with the distributor system.

 

On 10/16/2020 at 10:16 AM, jtryka said:

I bought a 2003 proof ASE at my last coin club meeting and the dealer was asking greysheet bid which was just $35!  Perhaps it's time to put the sets on hold and wait a few years to buy them in the aftermarket for something closer to melt.

Just remember that if a lot of people make that same decision the mintages will be lower and they won't fall down toward melt.

 

On 10/16/2020 at 11:02 AM, VKurtB said:

I hadn't read that they were thinking of selling bullion directly to "consumer/collectors". Where did you read that? Be careful about that idea. It WILL do to bullion what has happened to numismatic products.

Agreed, within a few years they will probably price themselves out of the bullion market. 

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4 hours ago, Conder101 said:

Just remember that if a lot of people make that same decision the mintages will be lower and they won't fall down toward melt.

Yes, this. Pay attention! This has happened before and it will happen again.

Want some evidence? Check out the Atlanta Olympic coins and the other post-Olympic 1996 commems. Watch these recent commem clad halves. The mintages are getting "sick low" on many of them.

Edited by VKurtB
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58 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Yes, this. Pay attention! This has happened before and it will happen again.

Want some evidence? Check out the Atlanta Olympic coins and the other post-Olympic 1996 commems. Watch these recent commem clad halves. The mintages are getting "sick low" on many of them.

There are a lot of low mintage modern commemoratives, though most are gold and not affordable to the average collector.  It's evident it results from overproduction of uninteresting themes with mediocre artistry resulting in coins only a relatively low number want as a collectible as opposed to buying it for speculation.  The mintages are low, but the survival isn't for the quality.  Depending upon the price, I suppose it has more financial potential than earning close to 0% in a bank account or with a bond but that's not saying much.

Financially, the problem with too many low mintage coins in the same series is that any one coin gets lost in obscurity.  It's evident that the US Mint is going to continue to produce this mediocrity indefinitely until someone with the ability to kill the program entirely ends it, just as in 1954. 

We're already at the point where completing the series is very uncompetitive for the target buyer.  It's more competitive for those who started much earlier but not otherwise.  It's either too expensive to "catch up" or there are far better coins for the same money.

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1 minute ago, World Colonial said:

There are a lot of low mintage modern commemoratives, though most are gold and not affordable to the average collector.  It's evident it results from overproduction of uninteresting themes with mediocre artistry resulting in coins only a relatively low number want as a collectible as opposed to buying it for speculation.  The mintages are low, but the survival isn't for the quality.  Depending upon the price, I suppose it has more financial potential than earning close to 0% in a bank account or with a bond but that's not saying much.

Financially, the problem with too many low mintage coins in the same series is that any one coin gets lost in obscurity.  It's evident that the US Mint is going to continue to produce this mediocrity indefinitely until someone with the ability to kill the program entirely ends it, just as in 1954. 

We're already at the point where completing the series is very uncompetitive for the target buyer.  It's more competitive for those who started much earlier but not otherwise.  It's either too expensive to "catch up" or there are far better coins for the same money.

Surely you aren't contending that the current state of affairs is in any way similar to the 1930's, or ARE YOU? York County, Maine or New Rochelle seems to be a whole extra level of abuse over and above the status quo.

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40 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Surely you aren't contending that the current state of affairs is in any way similar to the 1930's, or ARE YOU? York County, Maine or New Rochelle seems to be a whole extra level of abuse over and above the status quo.

Matter of degree to me.  Some difference but not substantive. 

The earlier modern commemoratives I thought covered "worthy" events but practically none more recently.  I also agree with your inference that many classic commemoratives never should have been struck.  It's just since collectors are used to seeing it in the Red Book over their entire collecting experience, they don't tend to think of these coins equally.

If most modern commemoratives had never been issued, I don't see it as any loss and it isn't because I don't buy it.  It's because I consider what's being commemorated trivial, irrelevant or just plain stupid.  There is no need to issue commemoratives every year if there is nothing "significant" enough for it.  Earlier you mentioned the Olympic coins.  1984, 1996 and 2002 I think is fine because the US hosted it.  I don't think it should have been issued for any others.  Leave this to the host country.

Over issuance cheapens the whole series and I'm not claiming this due to the price performance in the secondary market.  If fewer were issued for events actually worth commemorating, I believe it would make the series more interesting to more collectors.  I am also aware that anyone can avoid coins they don't like but many are still set collectors and won't do that.

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20 hours ago, World Colonial said:

Matter of degree to me.  Some difference but not substantive. 

The earlier modern commemoratives I thought covered "worthy" events but practically none more recently.  I also agree with your inference that many classic commemoratives never should have been struck.  It's just since collectors are used to seeing it in the Red Book over their entire collecting experience, they don't tend to think of these coins equally.

If most modern commemoratives had never been issued, I don't see it as any loss and it isn't because I don't buy it.  It's because I consider what's being commemorated trivial, irrelevant or just plain stupid.  There is no need to issue commemoratives every year if there is nothing "significant" enough for it.  Earlier you mentioned the Olympic coins.  1984, 1996 and 2002 I think is fine because the US hosted it.  I don't think it should have been issued for any others.  Leave this to the host country.

Over issuance cheapens the whole series and I'm not claiming this due to the price performance in the secondary market.  If fewer were issued for events actually worth commemorating, I believe it would make the series more interesting to more collectors.  I am also aware that anyone can avoid coins they don't like but many are still set collectors and won't do that.

The only difference with the classic commemoratives is that you can more easily put together sub sets such as a complete set of Oregon trail halves. The modern commemoratives don't have programs where you can really do this unless you include the 1995 and 1996 Atlanta coins and even then those coins aren't as popular with collectors compared to the Oregon Trail coins. 

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On 10/14/2020 at 4:54 PM, Alex in PA. said:

I no longer buy from the US Mint and haven't for a very many years.   It's not the prices that drove me away it was the quality and the lack of making products that appealed to me.  However, this only my opinion.

The U.S. Mint, and its product line today, bears little resemblance to the facility of yesteryear.  It makes one wonder to whom exactly are their product lines produced to appeal to?  And, it goes without saying, the pricing scheme employed is totally devoid of any sense of supply and demand.  The quality, or more properly, lack thereof is a recurring issue and the ordering interval, particularly with products anticipated to be popular with all segments of the public defy common sense.

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9 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

The U.S. Mint, and its product line today, bears little resemblance to the facility of yesteryear.  It makes one wonder to whom exactly are their product lines produced to appeal to?  And, it goes without saying, the pricing scheme employed is totally devoid of any sense of supply and demand. 

Outside of the "regular" proof ASE, with the bullion type coins, the target market is almost certainly predominantly financially motivated buyers. Not something I can prove but anecdotally, there seems to be a pattern where those who buy it as their primary interest don't buy much else.

As far as pricing, if compared to collector coin mint products from elsewhere, I agree.  There are far more collectors in the US but there is no reason to believe US collectors really like it that much.  The US Mint can get away with it though because:

1) Most US collectors almost certainly don't even know how much mint products elsewhere cost or the mintage

2)  They don't care anyway because they only collect US coins

3) They believe "low" or lower mintages (which are still actually not low) will enable them to sell it for more later. 

This last item has come up numerous times in this thread.  Financially, obviously lower mintages are better but only at a competitive price.  Proof and mint set mintages have crashed by something like 80% from the peak decades ago but still aren't remotely low and there is no reason to believe that anywhere near enough collectors want these products as a collectible even at the current issue price, never mind more. 

No difference for practically any "low" mintage commemorative where it ranges up to around 50,000 for the clad and silver and a few thousands for the gold.  Since almost no one would buy this coinage and it doesn't exist in lower quality, the relevant comparison isn't the mintage, but survivors in comparable quality.  By this standard, all of it remains common.

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On 10/25/2020 at 12:10 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

It makes one wonder to whom exactly are their product lines produced to appeal to?

Simple. Political interest groups. End of story.

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