Chinese Cast Coin 2 identify? 0

[osborne311]

4 grams and 25mm diameter.  Guessing at the orientation.  Chinese wreck off coast of Indonesia.

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by osborne311
orienting coin

[JKK]

Think you mean 25mm. 2.5mm is pretty small.

Offhand I think it needs to rotate 90 degrees counterclockwise (I think the snakey character goes at 12:00) and it is probably the same issue as your Coin 1 if you compare them closely. Nothing on reverse, obverse characters look quite similar.

[osborne311]

6 hours ago, JKK said:

Think you mean 25mm. 2.5mm is pretty small.

Offhand I think it needs to rotate 90 degrees counterclockwise (I think the snakey character goes at 12:00) and it is probably the same issue as your Coin 1 if you compare them closely. Nothing on reverse, obverse characters look quite similar.

Re oriented coin as suggested and corrected measurement.  Thank You

[JKK]

1 hour ago, osborne311 said:

Re oriented coin as suggested and corrected measurement.  Thank You

Wow. We're always having to hassle people to do those things and convince them that they matter. (Okay, the weight part is not really a big deal. But the orientation is.) That makes me want to go digging before my coffee.

I took a good look through the earliest Krause, 1600s; no soap. Your key character to look for is the one at the top, which looks like some abject servant prostrating himself with a tabletop on his back. The only thing I found that looked somewhat like it was the Annamese coins I mentioned, and only a couple, but I'm not sure there's a comprehensive reference on Annamese. Hartill (the book I suggested) only has a sampling and mentions that there are many contemporary fakes and variations, which is clear as mud. But that character is not a moving target; if you look long enough you'll find it; it'll be key. I think you're safe not to spend time in the Korean and Japanese listings. Hope that helps.

[osborne311]

Thoughts on this being 16.269 / 1086-93 / Yuan You tong bao / Emperor Zhe Zong?  The size is wrong but the characters seem a good match?

[JKK]

Somewhere in there. Might be 16.261-2, which are better size matches.

[osborne311]

21 hours ago, JKK said:

Somewhere in there. Might be 16.261-2, which are better size matches.

Finally a break from work for a bit today and plan to dive back in.  

[osborne311]

21 hours ago, JKK said:

Somewhere in there. Might be 16.261-2, which are better size matches.

I am almost certain that this is YUAN-YU T'UNG-PAO / Emperor Che Tsung AD 1086-1100 / Reign Title: YUAN-YU, AD 1086-1093 / Bronze 1 Cash in Seal -script.   Thoughts?

[JKK]

3 minutes ago, osborne311 said:

I am almost certain that this is YUAN-YU T'UNG-PAO / Emperor Che Tsung AD 1086-1100 / Reign Title: YUAN-YU, AD 1086-1093 / Bronze 1 Cash in Seal --script.   Thoughts?

I think it would depend on the reverse. Do you make that to be a heavily worn/corroded dot? If so, you want to make sure it's oriented correctly using the obverse, because the different issues with a reverse dot have it in different places. I'm not sure whether they used coin or medal alignment, offhand. Coin alignment is like ours, obverse one way, reverse the other. Medal alignment is both sides the same way.

[osborne311]

3 minutes ago, JKK said:

I think it would depend on the reverse. Do you make that to be a heavily worn/corroded dot? If so, you want to make sure it's oriented correctly using the obverse, because the different issues with a reverse dot have it in different places. I'm not sure whether they used coin or medal alignment, offhand. Coin alignment is like ours, obverse one way, reverse the other. Medal alignment is both sides the same way.

If it is the coin I believe it is - reverse is blank.  Even looking at the actual coin with magnification - I can see what you are referring to, but unsure if it might just be discoloration or build up from centuries on the ocean floor?

[osborne311]

5 minutes ago, JKK said:

I think it would depend on the reverse. Do you make that to be a heavily worn/corroded dot? If so, you want to make sure it's oriented correctly using the obverse, because the different issues with a reverse dot have it in different places. I'm not sure whether they used coin or medal alignment, offhand. Coin alignment is like ours, obverse one way, reverse the other. Medal alignment is both sides the same way.

See S565-8    http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/china/china5.htm

[JKK]

2 hours ago, osborne311 said:

See S565-8    http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/china/china5.htm

Seems pretty reasonable. Only in hand could you tell if there were the phantom of an old dot there, and it sounds like you took a close look.