Isle of Man
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They have it listed as "Temporarily Out of Stock" so I don't think they have it. I was mainly searching for information, but I did ask if they had it just in case.

They do have a 1986 "unlisted" full sovereign (mintage 12), asking $2,800. If you want to try and negotiate with them let me know and I'll PM you a link to the website.

I'm not sure why the 86 full sovereign was not listed anywhere, the 1/2, 2 & 5 are all in the references. Only makes sense that there would be a 1, since they typically sold the proofs in four coin sets. The references need some updating.

Edited by Fenntucky Mike
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12 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

They have it listed as "Temporarily Out of Stock" so I don't think they have it. I was mainly searching for information, but I did ask if they had it just in case.

They do have a 1986 "unlisted" full sovereign (mintage 12), asking $2,800. If you want to try and negotiate with them let me know and I'll PM you a link to the website.

I'm not sure why the 86 full sovereign was not listed anywhere, the 1/2, 2 & 5 are all in the references. Only makes sense that there would be a 1, since they typically sold the proofs in four coin sets. The references need some updating.

Please PM me the web-site. I'm wondering if this is the same firm that was unrealistic on the 1965. 

Also - do you know what reverse the 1986 has and was it proof or BU? Thanks

 

 

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I have looked again at the proof 1987 Viking Horseman which is pictured in this thread near the bottom of 4th page. It is enclosed in the original PM holder which is inside a velvet-lined box. When I pull the holder insert out and "feel" it for heft, the metal of coin feels quite dense - could it be gold? It is sealed in the holder. I need to find an XRF somewhere but the jewelry stores around here don't seem to have them or let me to use one. Any ideas on how I can test this coin without destroying the OGP?

I know it is a stupid sounding question, but trying to figure this out. I can not find any useful information on this coin, even to the extent of the silver proof and silver piedfort versions I have of this coin.

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On 10/14/2020 at 1:07 PM, VKurtB said:

An aside: Have any of you IoM collectors ever had the pleasure of traveling to the Isle of Man? I am considering adding it to the itinerary of my next U.K. trip. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Where IS the Isle of Man ?

Also, is there an Isle of Woman ?  xD

 

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10 hours ago, 7.jaguars said:

I have looked again at the proof 1987 Viking Horseman which is pictured in this thread near the bottom of 4th page. It is enclosed in the original PM holder which is inside a velvet-lined box. When I pull the holder insert out and "feel" it for heft, the metal of coin feels quite dense - could it be gold? It is sealed in the holder. I need to find an XRF somewhere but the jewelry stores around here don't seem to have them or let me to use one. Any ideas on how I can test this coin without destroying the OGP?

I know it is a stupid sounding question, but trying to figure this out. I can not find any useful information on this coin, even to the extent of the silver proof and silver piedfort versions I have of this coin.

The coin has the proper die marks for the proof virenium, to me it just doesn't look right for gold but it's hard to tell from a pic. Pobjoy typically used a single letter die mark for precious metal collector coins or no die mark at all. But who knows what Pobjoy did, it would not surprise me at all if yours was gold. Hope it is, that would be a great discovery. 

What type of holder is it in? If you can find a cheap IoM virenium £1 coin in the same holder you could compare the two, if yours is gold it should weigh more. IoM £1 coins from 1983 to 1995 would have the same virenium planchet (should weigh 9.5g).  Can you post a pic of the entire holder. 

I think virenium is 81% copper 10% zinc and 9% nickel, gold planchets were usually 22ct. 

Edited by Fenntucky Mike
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Excellent points there. I don't have any other virenium pounds in the holder which I will take a picture of but would imagine their gross weight in holder would be largely the same from year to year. The holder is felt and glued together with a plastic shield or covering about the coin. I have many of the virenium of this coin from currency to the Midland Bank individual holder to the holder for all of the 1987 coins.

The only holdered coins I have are the silver and silver piedfort of this design. I will report what all gross weights are. Do you (or other readers) have a weight of a pound coin in silver? Or weight in gold ( I think I may be able to find 83-86 gold weights in Krause, but are they accurate?).

Also, I will weigh the coin in holder and then see how it matches up to the silver version in holder and also to a known virenium currency strike.

 

Regardless will report back and hopefully tonight!

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I would check the dimensions as well, 22mm x 3mm for the virenium (some references list 22.5mm x 3mm), if possible. I would think it less likely that they used a similarly dimensioned planchet for a gold coin. I don't have weights for the silver.

For the "town series" (83 - 86) £1 coins, silver piedforts were produced in addition to the BU coins, Pobjoy also minted two different gold piedforts for each design a .374 (9ct) and .917 (22ct)  respectively. Since the Viking Warrior immediately follows the Town coins and as a silver piedfort was made of the Viking, it wouldn't surprise me if there are gold piedforts of the Viking using the same planchets as the gold Town coins. Just speculation.

3 hours ago, 7.jaguars said:

( I think I may be able to find 83-86 gold weights in Krause, but are they accurate?).

There are some in Krause but I'm a little leery of the weights and dimensions given for the standard issue gold coins. If they are accurate I would think the coin needs to be thinner than 3mm. Krause has some standard issue £1 gold coins (not listed in Southall) from the towns series weighing in at 7.96g and another at 9.50g both holding the same diameter as the virenium (22.5mm and 9.5g). I'm thinking if your coin has a diameter of 22/22.5mm and is thinner than 3mm or if it is a piedfort you may have something.

With PM you never know.(shrug)

Edited by Fenntucky Mike
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OK, well the speculation is over. I measured a standard currency 1987 Viking coin out of the Midland Pack.       Weight:     9.44 gm.

                                                    I measured the silver piefort 1987 Viking Coin in the "OGP" PM packing            Weight:     24.90 gm

                                                    Naughty me, was able to pull the piefort out of pack (and put it back).                Weight:     19.00 gm

                                                    Measured the "golden-coloured" 1987 Viking proof in packing                            Weight:     14.95 gm.

                                                    Extricated it and weighed out of OGP (slightly damaged that)                             Weight:       9.27 gm.

Moreover, it did not have the density of gold, so that is most likely a virenium proof... Ah, pooh.

Interestingly I saw that last month one of the Five Pound Knight on Horseback (?1985) in platinum just sold at Japanese auction for 420,000 yen = USD 4,035.

                                       

 

                       

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UPDATE:

The 2020 4th edition SPINK catalog arrived today, nothing relevant in regards to IoM sovereigns. They added a nice little write up by Alan Kelly of the 1721 - 1725 coinage but nothing much beyond that, eight 5 x 8 pages all predecimalization. Stick/invest in Southall's book if you're a or thinking about collecting IoM coinage.

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On 10/26/2020 at 12:02 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Four crowned shields, proof.

611474952_1986ION1PDPF69NSLAB112318(1).jpg.d194218f636eb6a024404645cd403143.jpg

PM on the way.

Beautiful coin. That is a true work of art. I looked at several since first read this thread and they are all very nice and beautiful coins. Hopefully one of these days after I get some of the other sets and coins im working on ill try to aquire some of those. 

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There was an 84 full sovereign that was sold by SB about a month ago, that went for $1,560 plus juice (I think).

446949664_1984FullSovereignObv.jpg.45d4173aa2ba55147663884d6b53eba5.jpg1297370579_1984FullSovereignRev.jpg.c6978df97d73a98e35845dd6e89e7ced.jpg

I did manage to pick up a couple of 91 halves for a very reasonable fee late last year. Still in OMP, I believe they packaged these in uncut sheets of 50.

Rev.JPG.947c444625f8aca161be925b90268f8d.JPG

Obv.thumb.JPG.6fb3b0263cd578002f1bb33468de8095.JPG

666631264_UncutSheet.png.e04044fb364e30b68c53aa7d7e7d4b81.png

 

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34 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

There was an 84 full sovereign that was sold by SB about a month ago, that went for $1,560 plus juice (I think).

446949664_1984FullSovereignObv.jpg.45d4173aa2ba55147663884d6b53eba5.jpg1297370579_1984FullSovereignRev.jpg.c6978df97d73a98e35845dd6e89e7ced.jpg

I did manage to pick up a couple of 91 halves for a very reasonable fee late last year. Still in OMP, I believe they packaged these in uncut sheets of 50.

Rev.JPG.947c444625f8aca161be925b90268f8d.JPG

Obv.thumb.JPG.6fb3b0263cd578002f1bb33468de8095.JPG

666631264_UncutSheet.png.e04044fb364e30b68c53aa7d7e7d4b81.png

 

I think he Goldberg"s lot was the first time the 1984 1/2 IOM Sov is the first to be auctioned. I've seen two others for sale - but that's it. I saw a half 1965 in MS65 sell for $1,500 and thought that was high. $1K for the much rarer 1984 is a decent price.

as for the 91s - let me know if you'd like to sell one. 

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On 10/26/2020 at 12:02 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Four crowned shields, proof.

611474952_1986ION1PDPF69NSLAB112318(1).jpg.d194218f636eb6a024404645cd403143.jpg

PM on the way.

:takeit: Or maybe I should say -- Mike will.  :roflmao:

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6 minutes ago, Zebo said:

as for the 91s - let me know if you'd like to sell one. 

You'll be the first to know. Since I have a credit I was going send them to NGC and have them conserved and slabbed (they're in PVC and have a film on them). I will be selling one of them this year.

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