Isle of Man 0

[Zebo]

1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

An aside: Have any of you IoM collectors ever had the pleasure of traveling to the Isle of Man? I am considering adding it to the itinerary of my next U.K. trip. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

I mentioned Chards during your last trip - this trip, not so much coin related. Stop by the Lexicon Book shop in Douglas. The Laxley wheel, if you like TT motorcycle racing - go when they are having an event - they close down the roads, old Victorian railway, Victorian theatre, woolen mills, just depends on what you like.

take a ride on the horse drawn carriage along the Doiglas promenade. I'll try to think of more. 

[Zebo]

On October 11, 2020 at 10:57 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

This thread made it to 100 posts.

All this talk about IoM coinage I had to pull the trigger on something. Here's my latest purchase, arrived yesterday.

All the scuffs on the rev are on the holder.

WCC brought up Fisch counterfeit dectors in another one of my treads - and even though your Noble is silver, you mentioned platinum Nobles. Here's my dector for it.

 

[VKurtB]

1 minute ago, Zebo said:

I mentioned Chards during your last trip - this trip, not so much coin related. Stop by the Lexicon Book shop in Douglas. The Laxley wheel, if you like TT motorcycle racing - go when they are having an event - they close down the roads, old Victorian railway, Victorian theatre, woolen mills, just depends on what you like.

take a ride on the horse drawn carriage along the Doiglas promenade. I'll try to think of more. 

I'm hoping they are COVID opened by then. They presently aren't even letting English mainlanders onto the IoM. Chards may get onto our itinerary again, depending on whether we can get to IoM.

[Zebo]

3 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

I'm hoping they are COVID opened by then. They presently aren't even letting English mainlanders onto the IoM. Chards may get onto our itinerary again, depending on whether we can get to IoM.

The island is small, but they did have some cases. I heard the were down to zero, but may have had a second wave and are being extra cautious. What time of year are you thinking about going? 

 

[VKurtB]

1 minute ago, Zebo said:

The island is small, but they did have some cases. I heard the were down to zero, but may have had a second wave and are being extra cautious. What time of year are you thinking about going? 

 

Late May 2021. The VIP tour of the British Royal Mint is booked and is a fixed date, so far.

Edited October 14, 2020 by VKurtB

[Zebo]

3 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Late May 2021. The VIP tour of the British Royal Mint is booked and is a fixed date, so far.

Sounds like a lot of fun - hope everything is open for you. 

[Zebo]

16 hours ago, Zebo said:

Sounds like a lot of fun - hope everything is open for you. 

Kurt, I've contacted a couple of folks in the IOM for additional coin related sites to see on your visit. Hopefully I will hear back from them soon.

 

[Zebo]

19 hours ago, VKurtB said:

Late May 2021. The VIP tour of the British Royal Mint is booked and is a fixed date, so far.

Good to hear that you will be visiting (hopefully our borders will be open) the Isle of Man.  We are still not sure if there will be a TT next year and this usually falls at the end of May beginning of June, so prices for travel and accommodation always peak then.

Manx Museum in Douglas is a must.  As is the Aviation Military Museum close to the airport in Ballasalla/Castletown.  The Island is a beautiful place and  you must visit the castles in Castletown and Peel.  Travel on the Steam train from Douglas to Castletown.  Also the Electric Tram up Snaefell mountain and it also travels to Ramsey in the north of the Island too.  

There are no set coin shops at the moment, but there are a few antique shops, but of course they may not be still there in a few months time. 

What they did not mention and something I recommend is the woolen shops. Excellent quality and interesting products.

[VKurtB]

4 hours ago, Zebo said:

Good to hear that you will be visiting (hopefully our borders will be open) the Isle of Man.  We are still not sure if there will be a TT next year and this usually falls at the end of May beginning of June, so prices for travel and accommodation always peak then.

Manx Museum in Douglas is a must.  As is the Aviation Military Museum close to the airport in Ballasalla/Castletown.  The Island is a beautiful place and  you must visit the castles in Castletown and Peel.  Travel on the Steam train from Douglas to Castletown.  Also the Electric Tram up Snaefell mountain and it also travels to Ramsey in the north of the Island too.  

There are no set coin shops at the moment, but there are a few antique shops, but of course they may not be still there in a few months time. 

What they did not mention and something I recommend is the woolen shops. Excellent quality and interesting products.

I love woolens and I’ve used them often in Pennsylvania. In Alabama, however, the woolens season is about 4 weeks.

[7.jaguars]

Please bring us back some Viking sovs !    LOL

[VKurtB]

13 hours ago, Zebo said:

Kurt, I've contacted a couple of folks in the IOM for additional coin related sites to see on your visit. Hopefully I will hear back from them soon.

 

Thank you most kindly. If we can work IoM into our trip, we’ll disembark in Ireland first and then go mobile by boat for a trip to IoM and then England. I love train travel for overground portions.

[7.jaguars]

OK, back to the 1987 Viking coin. I took a picture of the silver proof (terrible quality) but more important - sort of - is the COA. 

That COA indicates there was a mintage maximum stated of 250 in gold and 50 of platinum. Were any in fact struck? As I've said none were seen. I'm at work so will post this PM.

 

[Zebo]

4 hours ago, 7.jaguars said:

That COA indicates there was a mintage maximum stated of 250 in gold and 50 of platinum. Were any in fact struck?

Can't say for sure.

[7.jaguars]

As promised, here are the photos....There appears to be a small "4" after each of the listings on the COA. I can't find any further reference.

Edited October 20, 2020 by 7.jaguars

[Fenntucky Mike]

The "4" is probably an indication of the number of times the coin was struck.

I've seen similar notations on other Pobjoy products, it seems that starting around 1985 they changed from normally striking a proof coin twice to four times. In the 1/10 angels that is why you see some of the 1984's with just PF or PFCA designations, everything after that is PFUC. Pobjoy felt the need to "advertise" the increased # of strikes, or at least that is my theory. 

Found a letter from a 1991 proof set where the number of strikes is still being mentioned.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Fenntucky Mike
Additional Info

[Zebo]

9 hours ago, 7.jaguars said:

There appears to be a small "4" after each of the listings on the COA. I can't find any further reference.

Mike is right - this explains it further:

Pobjoy uses the term BU to specify the range of bullion products which are only struck once and have a matt finish. The proof coins are struck four times to produce a brilliant mirror finish quality with frosted relief.

[7.jaguars]

Wow, that is impressive. How did you come on that knowledge - looks like a kind of footnote or something? Excellent detective work! For some reason I like this design, whimsical that it seems, but would like to get hold of the platinum and/or gold version(s).

[Zebo]

1 hour ago, 7.jaguars said:

Wow, that is impressive. How did you come on that knowledge - looks like a kind of footnote or something? Excellent detective work! For some reason I like this design, whimsical that it seems, but would like to get hold of the platinum and/or gold version(s).

Many (many) conversations with Mint personnel along with some information in the reference bookmark and from the author.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Zebo

[zadok]

...fyi, earlier in this thread there was discussion about hesitancy or declining to ship coins from the UK to US due to none tracking issues...this may have been an issue at one time, there is now available a Royal Mail option available that tracks the parcel door to door...its called International Tracked Express...comes with online confirmation of delivery and with signature required if so desired...I have been the recipient of this method of delivery without incident and in fact received such a numismatic parcel today with this tracking, total cost 12 pounds sterling...for future reference should the need arise...

[misterbrillo]

Hi Zadok;

Thanks for that.

Yes, you are correct about RM International Tracked but the main downside to that service is the compensation payable if the package does not arrive - £50 (about $65 approx), which can be increased for extra payment to £250 ($325 approx). Not many coins worth sending with a value of less than £250.

And of course, there's that other issue: putting a customs label on the package stating: "Gold coins, please slit open and help yourself". The other issue that if one just puts "coins" (for example) on the label, there is the risk of seizure for inadequate declaration.

And.....for dispatch of eBay items that require a signature be shown to eBay to prove delivery in case of a dispute, there is the asterisk (*) in the terms and conditions: "A signature is taken on delivery. However, we don't provide you with a copy of the signature as part of the service".

And finally - the very first item in the list of services: "Your item is tracked until it leaves the UK" (i.e. your item is not tracked after that.)

I'd like to think that it's just unjustified paranoia, but experience tells me otherwise, even though I am sure that a vast majority of packages make it safe and sound; for small-time folk like me, the loss of one package can have a marked financial repercussion.

Oh dear.

[7.jaguars]

Big boys in London, etc. send me via FedEx and never a hesitancy even with big ticket items....

[misterbrillo]

I have no doubt that the big boys in London will send the big ticket items but, even then, the FedEx UK T&Cs, section 8.1 (Prohibited Items), item L states quite clearly that collectible coins (or any money equivalent item) are prohibited from shipment and no money back guarantee applies to loss. That's the difference between the risks that the Big Boys are prepared to take and the Small Boys (me) are not - I can't afford to lose the money, LOL.

[zadok]

...the original point wasn't about the compensation or lack there of, it was about whether item could be tracked and if delivery could be confirmed...international track express does both...it is door to door outside of UK n there is delivery confirmation provided ....brillo was incorrect on his above statement about that issue....now if one wants shipping with full loss insurance, good luck with that, its not really available even in country, best use private courier service, but that issue is a separate discussion item....

[7.jaguars]

Hmm, never occurred to me as a problem as I also get small bits from small sellers and never had a problem. I will try to pay more attention as I have a small Ebay purchase of about 4 coins coming my way from UK.

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 9/19/2020 at 9:42 AM, Zebo said:

The 1984 is a rarity with 20 minted (per catalogs) in BU and 12 in Proof.

What do you think about this quote from a seller of a 1984 PF 1/2 Sovereign.

"KM# 260 LIST 20 MINTED, HOWEVER A LETTER WAS ISSUED FROM RUSSELL RULAU V.P. POBJOY MINT THAT ONLY 10 SETS WERE EVER MADE (A COPY COMES WITH THE SALE)"

Does anyone know something about this letter? Is it a gimmick or is it real?

Good news for you if there were only 10 produced.

Didn't quite make it to 40,000. 

What was the reason for "cancelling" the production on the 1984? My guess is that Pobjoy cancelled the production due poor sales numbers and large mintages in 81 & 82 (come on, who would want the 81 sovereign?). I can't imagine the IoM cancelling the run, from all accounts they had nothing to loose, financially anyway. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Fenntucky Mike
spelling

[Zebo]

I saw this offering quite a while ago. It is a bit confusing. There was supposedly a four coin set below with a mintage of 10 or less. This would be separate from the individual offerings I believe. The questions I'd have on the offering are:

 

1) where are the other three coins from the set and why were they separated?

2) why do you included the approved maximum mintage for the BU2 (COA)?  I cannot remember if the number of strikes in 1984 for proofs was two or four as it is today. I have that information someplace, but cannot put my fingers on it at the moment.

3) where is the letter stating that it was part of the four piece set? Without the letter - I do not believe that you can distinguish between the sets and the individual offerings. I'd have to examine both in hand.

 

From Pobjoy:

Thank you for the message, with the information that we have available the design with the 4 Crown shield in Proof has a mintage of 20.

 

Mike - your suspicion regarding poor sales numbers is logical because of the recession. 

The early 1980s recession was a severe global economic recessionthat affected much of the developed world in the late 1970s and early 1980s. The United States and Japan exited the recession relatively early, but high unemployment would continue to affect other OECD nations until at least 1985

[Fenntucky Mike]

28 minutes ago, Zebo said:

1) where are the other three coins from the set and why were they separated?

2) why do you included the approved maximum mintage for the BU2 (COA)?  I cannot remember if the number of strikes in 1984 for proofs was two or four as it is today. I have that information someplace, but cannot put my fingers on it at the moment.

3) where is the letter stating that it was part of the four piece set? Without the letter - I do not believe that you can distinguish between the sets and the individual offerings. I'd have to examine both in hand.

It looks like the seller broke up the set, they have the 1984 5,2 & 1 Sovereigns listed as well but they have different NGC cert #'s so they were not submitted at the same time or at least on separate forms.

Sorry, I included the COA for the BU2. Didn't mean to confuse things, my lame attempt at humor, it came with a BU example that I saw on the internet, just thought I'd share. I would be interested to learn the # of strikes for the proof, I imagine that it is 4.

I asked for a copy or picture of the letter from Rulau and images of the original mint packaging, we'll see. I was assuming the proofs were only released as sets and made up for the entire estimated mintage of "20", and the BU's were sold as individual offerings totaling between 12 & 20. Were proofs sold as individual coins? Are these figures the total sold or minted, were any melted, are there records for what they melted in any of the years?

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Fenntucky Mike
Another Question.

[Zebo]

1 hour ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

It looks like the seller broke up the set, they have the 1984 5,2 & 1 Sovereigns listed as well but they have different NGC cert #'s so they were not submitted at the same time or at least on separate forms.

I think this should raise a flag or two.

Proofs are struck four times, just not sure when that started. Sometimes Pobjoy gives flippant information, sometimes contradictory and once in a blue moon - some good. They often confuse full and half sovereigns. Most of the time the information is the same for both, but on occasion - it's not and if they confuse it or give an off the cuff response - it can really mess up your records. I'd love to g through their holding(records), but have been denied that opportunity. I'll try again one day.

[Zebo]

Even with the differs cert number issue -- if you can negotiate the price - it's a beautiful coin with a low mintage.

[7.jaguars]

Of course, there are always us lurkers that would buy in the event you do not....LOL