Isle of Man 0

[Zebo]

21 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

That's what I thought.

Have you ever gone to their website, they have quite a few documents scanned and available for download. https://www.tynwald.org.im/Pages/Search.aspx?=&s=All Sites&k=sovereign&start1=1

Here's one about the 1983 sovereign's, not really any additional info but you might be able to find some documents.

Thanks - I've been through some of these records and have found this one in the past - Thanks for the web-site, not sure if I've seen it in the past (I don't think so) - so I'll have some fun going through it.

the above document states a minimum of 916/1000 fineness was authorized. It doesn't really give us a clue on whether or not any were minted (in BU or the higher 980/1000 proof). I was after the archives in which Pobjoy would have reported to the IOM government how many they struck in their yearly reports. 

[7.jaguars]

Nice work, fellas!  Keep it up. The PM is a bit like the FM in later years with records near to unobtainable. At least there is a relatively direct government entity, but for me is of interest in itself and also what it means to those Caribbean coins of the FM I have been trying to run down. 

[7.jaguars]

Are you whizz kids able to determine on the 1987 Viking on Horseback Ellan Vannin pound/sovereign the different types minted? I have found the following:

Regular brassy uncirculated

Proof brassy

Silver Proof version

Silver Piefort version

 

From other years, before and after they struck gold and platinum versions. Have you ever seen such?

 

 

[Zebo]

11 minutes ago, 7.jaguars said:

Nice work, fellas!  Keep it up. The PM is a bit like the FM in later years with records near to unobtainable. At least there is a relatively direct government entity, but for me is of interest in itself and also what it means to those Caribbean coins of the FM I have been trying to run down. 

BTW - the enclyopedia of IOM coins has three editions 1977, 1978 and 1979. I have the 1979 edition. Since I've found some interest in IOM coinage (both of you), I've also just ordered the first edition - I doubt there will be any gems that aren't in the third edition, but who knows. It will look nice in my library in any case (joke)!

[7.jaguars]

Yes, any help is good. This post of yours has reignited an old interest. Do you have an uncirculated 1978 1/2 sov. - which I have on my copied Southall as proof only?

[Zebo]

25 minutes ago, 7.jaguars said:

Yes, any help is good. This post of yours has reignited an old interest. Do you have an uncirculated 1978 1/2 sov. - which I have on my copied Southall as proof only?

That is the coronation anniversary issue - proof only (listed as such in the enclyopedia). I do not have a BU issue and I do not believe that there is one.

[7.jaguars]

OK, never seen it listed but did not have it either.  I don't recall any special markings indicating it as coronation related. 

[Zebo]

4 hours ago, 7.jaguars said:

OK, never seen it listed but did not have it either.  I don't recall any special markings indicating it as coronation related. 

It was for QEII's 25th coronation anniversary. There isn't any special mark on the coins (as far as I know), but they were sold in four coin specimen sets (half, one, two and five). I am not sure what is meant by specimen set. Something to follow-up on for sure.

 

[Fenntucky Mike]

Had some time to circle back to this.

Did some more checking and found a couple of minor updates, not listed in Southall, both Die Marks.

1974 BU, Die Mark "A"

1977 Die Mark "A"

[Fenntucky Mike]

Is it known if the 1965 22ct and 23.5ct were mixed between BU and Proof or for example was the 22ct used exclusively for the proofs?

[7.jaguars]

Do you trust Krause or the Royal Mint? But that is what they've listed at with the weights respectively at 3.9940 grams and 4.0000 gms.

 Not I, brown cow!

 

They do have your two coins listed in Krause for what it's worth.

 

I posted the following in its own topic, but if you love Vikings, you may like this Niue coin:

 

[Zebo]

24 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Is it known if the 1965 22ct and 23.5ct were mixed between BU and Proof or for example was the 22ct used exclusively for the proofs?

From what I understand the 22 ct was the BU issues and the 23.5 ct was the proofs.

[Zebo]

43 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Had some time to circle back to this.

Did some more checking and found a couple of minor updates, not listed in Southall, both Die Marks.

1974 BU, Die Mark "A"

1977 Die Mark "A"

Nice coins. The die marks for the series go up to E, but I haven't seen one of those yet. I've seen A, B, C, and Ds.

for the 1974 montage: 6,566 total broken down as:

A die Mark 4,768

B die Mark 1,798

I do not have the die mintages for the 1977

[Zebo]

20 minutes ago, 7.jaguars said:

Do you trust Krause or the Royal Mint? But that is what they've listed at with the weights respectively at 3.9940 grams and 4.0000 gms.

 Not I, brown cow!

 

They do have your two coins listed in Krause for what it's worth.

 

I posted the following in its own topic, but if you love Vikings, you may like this Niue coin:

 

And I'll see you a...

 

[7.jaguars]

Match made in Heaven! Here is the 1987 Ellan Vannin Viking on Horseback (in pot metal brass/whatever proof - I believe fairly scarce). Are these covered in Southall or other sources, not in Krause in proof that I can see.

I bought this just yesterday:

Edited September 24, 2020 by 7.jaguars

[Zebo]

4 minutes ago, 7.jaguars said:

Match made in Heaven! Here is the 1987 Ellan Vannin Viking on Horseback (in pot metal brass/whatever proof - I believe fairly scarce). Are these covered in Southall or other sources, not in Krause in proof that I can see.

I bought this just yesterday:

I was looking at that th other day. It's not in Southall under the sovereign section. I'll have to look under the year to be sure. Not in the enclyopedia as it didn't cover that year. 

[7.jaguars]

It may be designated pound - I think it is - but I have found max limits on the silver version in proof and piefort proof, but not the pot metal proof (which looks kind of goldish). The other township pounds/sovereigns were also struck in gold and platinum but have not seen this one in either of those metals.

Thanks if you can help. I only have the reprint of Southall's section on the viking on horseback sov. series.

[Zebo]

11 minutes ago, 7.jaguars said:

It may be designated pound - I think it is - but I have found max limits on the silver version in proof and piefort proof, but not the pot metal proof (which looks kind of goldish). The other township pounds/sovereigns were also struck in gold and platinum but have not seen this one in either of those metals.

Thanks if you can help. I only have the reprint of Southall's section on the viking on horseback sov. series.

It is a one pound coin. The metal is Virenium and the die Mark should be AA or BB if it is one with a superior finish (flier-de-coin). It has the mintmark on the obverse 

obverse portrait by Raphael Maklouf 

22mm by 3Mm thick

edge is interrupted grained 

mintage is not recorded

[7.jaguars]

Could you find any record of this later viking coin being struck in gold or platinum?

[Zebo]

32 minutes ago, 7.jaguars said:

Could you find any record of this later viking coin being struck in gold or platinum?

No gold or platinum listed. Only a piedfort sterling silver. I'm working out of Southhalls second edition. I think our friend has a third edition. I doubt if there is additional information on this one, however.

Virenium Definition: A patented silver-coloured base metal alloy in the Nickel Silver family, often used for commemorative coins and medals. Composed largely of copper, with nickel, zinc and other constituents. Intended to have the look and stability of precious metal.

 

Virenium is a German Silver type of alloy containing nickel as well as copper and zinc with a magnetic element as a built in security device. It was first used by the Isle of Man. It has the composition 81% Cu, 10% Zn and 9% Ni.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Zebo

[7.jaguars]

Thanks! They should call it "pot metal deluxe" because just like Sac dollars, they look like with circulation, and distinctly as pot metal. I guess then that I have the complete set:

Circulation type

Specimen type in bank hard plastic

Proof virenium

Proof silver

Piefort proof silver.

[Zebo]

1 hour ago, 7.jaguars said:

Thanks! They should call it "pot metal deluxe" because just like Sac dollars, they look like with circulation, and distinctly as pot metal. I guess then that I have the complete set:

Circulation type

Specimen type in bank hard plastic

Proof virenium

Proof silver

Piefort proof silver.

Of the 1987 issue?

[7.jaguars]

Yes indeed.

[Zebo]

1 hour ago, 7.jaguars said:

Yes indeed.

[Fenntucky Mike]

A guy in the UK has an 84 proof listed, not sure if it's legit, or still available. He will only ship to a UK address, if anyone is in the area it might be worth an email and/or road trip to check it out. 

[Fenntucky Mike]

No additional info on the 1987 Ellan Vannin in the Third Edition.

I took Krause off the shelf last night and am compiling info into a single source so I can keep it all organized. I need to get my act together on these if I'm going to start collecting them. 

On 9/21/2020 at 9:00 AM, Zebo said:

BTW - the enclyopedia of IOM coins has three editions 1977, 1978 and 1979. I have the 1979 edition.

I have the 79 on the way. 

I have a couple of other "modern" British/Scottish references that include the Islands but I doubt there will be any additional info in them. We'll see.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Fenntucky Mike

[Zebo]

50 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

No additional info on the 1987 Ellan Vannin in the Third Edition.

I took Krause of the shelf last night and am compiling info into a single source so I can keep it all organized. I need to get my act together on these if I'm going to start collecting them. 

I have the 79 on the way. 

I have a couple of other "modern" British/Scottish references that include the Islands but I doubt there will be any additional info in them. We'll see.

The encyclopedia has a couple of gems in it. It's incomplete as usual, but adds some that is not in Southall's book. The Scotish book (Spinks) on coins that includes the islands - I don't believe covers the sovereigns. If it does and you have it please advise. The more information that you can piece together - the better.

the 1984 is interesting. I don't like the scratch above QE's forehead, but it might be worth an email.  What is the web-site?

Edited September 25, 2020 by Zebo

[Fenntucky Mike]

33 minutes ago, Zebo said:

The encyclopedia has a couple of gems in it. It's incomplete as usual, but adds some that is not in Southall's book. The Scotish book (Spinks) on coins that includes the islands - I don't believe covers the sovereigns. If it does and you have it please advise. The more information that you can piece together - the better.

the 1984 is interesting. I don't like the scratch above QE's forehead, but it might be worth an email.  What is the web-site?

I'll let you know if there is a section on IOM sovereigns in any of the other references I have, I believe Spinks is one of them.

Sent PM with link to site.

[brg5658]

Love this thread and discussion gent!  Many thanks! 

[Zebo]

2 hours ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

I'll let you know if there is a section on IOM sovereigns in any of the other references I have, I believe Spinks is one of them.

Sent PM with link to site.

The 1984 was sold. Hopefully I will know for what price soon. Those marks were distracting on it - to bad for a rare coin that should,have been treated better.