erwindoc Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Been thinking about this question for some time and I will start by saying that I have been a fan of the NGC star designation for years(check my sets if you don't believe me!). Unfortunately, I think that the plus grading system has hurt the value of the star. Points are the same in the registry for a star coin, which is designated for exceptional eye appeal. The plus is upper ends of the respective grade. What are your thoughts??? Which would you rather have a "+" or a "*"? Riding the fence with this dime that has both the plus and star designation... Walkerfan and rrantique 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsshog40 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 I think the "Star" is great for eye appeal but I think that if I had the choice I would go for the "Plus" as it represents a coin that is just a little better than the grade assigned. Or they could keep the Star and go for 1/2 grades. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Nice coin - out of the two choices, I'd go with the plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MarkFeld Posted September 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2020 I’d definitely decide which I’d prefer on a coin by coin basis. There are plenty of star coins and plus coins that I don’t like, as well as plenty of both that I think are great. GoldFinger1969, Henri Charriere and brg5658 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, MarkFeld said: I’d definitely decide which I’d prefer on a coin by coin basis. There are plenty of star coins and plus coins that I don’t like, as well as plenty of both that I think are great. Good point - but considering the coin's are both equally appealing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 I have seen stars on single side cameo coins. I think some are for color. Any other biggies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFeld Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, VKurtB said: I have seen stars on single side cameo coins. I think some are for color. Any other biggies? Here are some additional characteristics that appear to earn stars: One sided PL coins, cameos that just miss deep cameo, coins that are semi-PL on each side, but which miss the PL designation, exceptionally lustrous/flashy examples. Edited September 8, 2020 by MarkFeld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Colonial Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Not very relevant to my collecting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsshog40 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 This is the one and only Star that I have. rrantique 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkerfan Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 (edited) Stars are scarcer (I own 4 times as many pluses as stars) and more eye appealing. So, if base grades are the same, as an example: I would choose a MS 65 * over an MS 65+ anytime. Edited September 8, 2020 by Walkerfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 16 minutes ago, bsshog40 said: This is the one and only Star that I have. That'n must be juuuuust shy of UC, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFeld Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Zebo said: Good point - but considering the coin's are both equally appealing? I have a hard time believing that I wouldn’t be able to determine that one was more appealing to me than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFeld Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, VKurtB said: That'n must be juuuuust shy of UC, then. That would be by far, the most likely reason I could think of, though the coin doesn’t look it in the picture. Bobby, does the coin look close to ultra cameo, in hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsshog40 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, VKurtB said: That'n must be juuuuust shy of UC, then. It was close! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsshog40 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 minute ago, MarkFeld said: That would be by far, the most likely reason I could think of, though the coin doesn’t look it in the picture. Bobby, does the coin look close to ultra cameo, in hand? It was close Mark. The Rev looks more UC and it looks like the Obverse stopped a little short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 minute ago, bsshog40 said: It was close! I just love me some Cams and UC's. I could look at them all day. bsshog40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFeld Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, bsshog40 said: It was close Mark. The Rev looks more UC and it looks like the Obverse stopped a little short. Thanks. bsshog40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I would not be able to give an answer until I had a coin to evaluate, to be fair I see the star get used more often for toning and as I'm more a red copper (and blast white for silver) collector I rarely am in the position to purchase star coins but do have a few + coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 A blast white "Plus" please. I'd consider "star" over plus if the coin has complete and even cobalt blue toning. In general "Plus" over "Star", it's at the high end of the grade (or slightly better). Some people like the "Pluses" for the resubmission game, or have them in case they ever want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_OldeTowne Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Working in an auction venue, the "plus" can add a bit of value to an otherwise-normal coin, but it almost never seems to push it "half way" into the next grade range's value. The STAR, however... that's a whole different ballgame. I have seen some coins with a very mundane grade get pushed FAR above the grade-range's typical value. The best example I can think of might be a common Morgan dollar, say MS-63, that sheets for $75 but sells for $3,000! Of course, one might say that it was because of the astounding bag toning, but the point is - THAT coin earned a "star" and not a "plus" because of the unfathomable eye-appeal, not because it was "close to MS-64". In that regard, I believe the "star" is the more desirable designation. rrantique 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 hour ago, James_OldeTowne said: Working in an auction venue, the "plus" can add a bit of value to an otherwise-normal coin, but it almost never seems to push it "half way" into the next grade range's value. The STAR, however... that's a whole different ballgame. I have seen some coins with a very mundane grade get pushed FAR above the grade-range's typical value. The best example I can think of might be a common Morgan dollar, say MS-63, that sheets for $75 but sells for $3,000! Of course, one might say that it was because of the astounding bag toning, but the point is - THAT coin earned a "star" and not a "plus" because of the unfathomable eye-appeal, not because it was "close to MS-64". In that regard, I believe the "star" is the more desirable designation. I sincerely hope that's right. I own only one + coin, but quite a few "star" coins. And I bought them all raw and submitted them myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conder101 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Assuming I agree with the star, I would prefer it. Given a choice between eye appeal and a higher grade, I choose eye appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abuelo's Collection Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Both have very different meanings, not sure they are meant to be compared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/8/2020 at 10:40 AM, VKurtB said: I sincerely hope that's right. I own only one + coin, but quite a few "star" coins. And I bought them all raw and submitted them myself. You're a discriminating collector with good taste. While I have purchased plus grades, I wait now for a whole grade to become available to save me the trouble of upgrading. I have never owned a * but would, if it were warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lehigh96 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 On 9/7/2020 at 6:41 PM, erwindoc said: Been thinking about this question for some time and I will start by saying that I have been a fan of the NGC star designation for years(check my sets if you don't believe me!). Unfortunately, I think that the plus grading system has hurt the value of the star. Points are the same in the registry for a star coin, which is designated for exceptional eye appeal. The plus is upper ends of the respective grade. What are your thoughts??? Which would you rather have a "+" or a "*"? Riding the fence with this dime that has both the plus and star designation... I'm not sure that it was the plus designation that hurt the star designation, but like you, I have been a fan of the star designation since its inception in the early 2000s, but as of late, it seems rather impossible to get a star out of NGC. I sent a submission last year where I was expecting anywhere from 5-10 stars. I got ZERO!!!! Then they took away the Designation Review service this year so if I wanted to send them back for reconsideration, I would have to submit the coin under the regrade service, pay full price, and get a new serial number. As for your original question, I typically would choose the star because that relates to eye appeal, but your Barber Dime seems the best way to go, get both the star and the + on the same coin. Currently, I only have one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lehigh96 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Coincidentally, I just found a coin that this topic applies to. Does this Jefferson Nickel deserve a +, *, +*, or nothing at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, lehigh96 said: Coincidentally, I just found a coin that this topic applies to. Does this Jefferson Nickel deserve a +, *, +*, or nothing at all? Without knowing the grade that it was given, it is impossible to say whether or not it deserves a plus. But, the toning is pretty enough that I believe it did receive a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lehigh96 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 16 minutes ago, Just Bob said: Without knowing the grade that it was given, it is impossible to say whether or not it deserves a plus. But, the toning is pretty enough that I believe it did receive a star. Good point, it is an MS67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 In that case, it's a "no" on the plus. And, that is not due to what looks like chatter on the cheek and collar. That, I am guessing, is due to the coin not striking up fully. I do, however, think I see enough small tics in the hair, fields, and on Monticello to keep it from getting the plus. Just my opinion, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) There is no one more unqualified to pass judgment on this coin than I am. Fortunately, I have Just Bob's observation to rely on and, as everyone knows, he hasn't been far off the mark on things numismatic since 1959. To be on the safe side, MS-67 does not seem far-fetched. My problem is an anemic reverse which, as an amateur, I would peg at as MS-66+, if that. Does the coin deserve a *? The obverse certainly looks nice but there is nothing on the reverse that I see deserving of such an accolade. Stars should be reserved for pieces exhibiting exceptional eye-appeal. A lovely war nickel in all respects! Edited September 15, 2020 by Quintus Arrius Decapitalization; add word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
