Intermediate Quiz: What caused these marks? 1 1

[Moxie15]

I am sticking with my original thought that it is PMD from a coin counter roller

Edited September 5, 2020 by Moxie15
typo

[Insider]

7 hours ago, Cat Bath said:

My wild guess is roll crimping.

How would this reach into the interior of the coin an leave diagonal marks?  Marks from crimping are found around the rim. 

[RWB]

RE: "I thank Insider for his graciousness in tolerating my unwarranted intrusions on his thread..."

Several companies offer warranties even after your original has expired. They cover all sorts of things and can probably cover "intrusions" at a reasonable annual fee.

[Insider]

2 minutes ago, RWB said:

RE: "I thank Insider for his graciousness in tolerating my unwarranted intrusions on his thread..."

Several companies offer warranties even after your original has expired. They cover all sorts of things and can probably cover "intrusions" at a reasonable annual fee.

Roger, you are a very important addition to any forum.  You do like to insert your "humor" into threads quite often.  I'll admit tit is frustrating at times but I "spank" you.

I wish you Condor and Mark would join Coin Talk.  It would push the quality of that place way up.   At the moment it is far more active than here.   

 

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/3/2020 at 12:15 PM, Zebo said:

Wasn't this already answered by bs shot? Roller marks or feeder marks - same thing, right?

I was variously enthralled by Moxie15s references to receding collars, ejecting mechanisms and all manner of feeder fingers and frankly appalled by our colleague VKurtBs brash but feeble attempt to shirk from his divine duty to solve this riddle by intimating he was at the end of his rope trying to single-handedly revive this Forum.  Well, ex-cuuuse me!

I am revising my earlier opinion, to-wit:  PTS/PMD. Briefly, if this is a common phenomenon, then it stands to reason the damage if not willful and intentional was not unexpected and not inadvertent thus the diagnosis: post-traumatic stress brought on by garden-variety post-mint damage.  By what instrument wrought I am not prepared to say.  I wonder what Wondercoin would say...

 

[physics-fan3.14]

18 hours ago, Insider said:

Yes, very commonly!   One of the things I mentioned (PMD) is on 20% -30% of the coins I see each day. 

You know what, I'm reaching the end of my attempt to revive this place.  Members (less than 2 dozen active?) wish to comment OFF SUBJECT for what ever the reason.  Insecurity?  Anyway, I'm not going to give up just yet.  Now, rather than bla, bla, bla does anyone care to post the other POSSIBLE things these marks could be.  

Recent threads seem to be dominated by a pair of trolls intent on destroying everything in an attempt to make themselves look good. One of them was kicked off CoinTalk for similar behavior, and the other has a penchant for rambling nonsensically. They seem to have no care or regard for actually discussing and learning, and that's a shame. These boards have seemed to have had a bit of a revival lately - but the "activity" is mostly comprised of these two going back and forth. 

Its really annoying, and I wish they would stop. 

[physics-fan3.14]

16 hours ago, Insider said:

Don't over think this.  What could cause a mark into the surface of a struck coin.   Never mind.

This mark could be:

1. PMD. 

2. A strike thru

3. A planchet flaw

4. Corrosion

5. Other...

Answer Tuesday.  Happy Holiday.

A strike through or planchet flaw seem the most likely on this one for me. Giving the long, streaked appearance, some sort of lamination/delamination error was my first instinct on this coin. 

[numisport]

Looks like planchet flaw to me. How about scuffed holder ? 

Edited September 5, 2020 by numisport

[Insider]

I posted in the beginning that this is not a basic quiz.  Actually it is a very tough one due to the unusual/rare appearance of this defect. Therefore this mark resembles a lot of things being suggested. I gave you the obvious choices above to stir up some answers.  When you have seen hundreds of these at the magnification in the OP it becomes a less difficult determination. 

I know what it is and will post the final clue Tuesday when I can get to the images at work.  

[Insider]

1 hour ago, numisport said:

Looks like planchet flaw to me. How about scuffed holder ? 

Good guess, The coin is raw and it "looks like" a planchet flaw.

[VKurtB]

@Insider, a coupla questions:

1) Are we referencing those diagonal striations going from SW to NE? Is that what we're supposed to be looking at?

2) A basic quick look seems to show that we are looking at lighting coming fairly strongly from the right side. While that is perfectly okay, it is a somewhat unusual choice. Is it being too obtuse to ask if that's important?

3) We're looking at the coin's surface itself and there's nothing covering it, true?

 

Editorial comment - these are things I wouldn't even need to ask about if I were able to examine this coin " in the hand", the only way that makes sense, unless of course, one is an Internet-captive numismatist.

Edited September 5, 2020 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

56 minutes ago, Insider said:

I posted in the beginning that this is not a basic quiz.  Actually it is a very tough one due to the unusual/rare appearance of this defect.  

Okay, let's freeze the frame right there, and scroll back... (Ahem, physics-fan-pi, etc. is excused from this exercise.)

In your initial post, you said, "The marks you see are commonly found on silver coins." 

Later, "What are the things that could commonly  cause this mark on a coin?"

And later still, "Yes, very COMMONLY!"

Now you refer to the "unusual/rare appearance of this defect."

What changed?

[VKurtB]

1 minute ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Okay, let's freeze the frame right there, and scroll back... (Ahem, physics-fan-pi, etc. is excused from this exercise.)

In your initial post, you said, "The marks you see are commonly found on silver coins." 

Later, "What are the things that could commonly  cause this mark on a coin?"

And later still, "Yes, very COMMONLY!"

Now you refer to the "unusual/rare appearance of this defect."

What changed?

Great question, QA. Credit where credit's due.

[Conder101]

5 hours ago, Insider said:

I wish you Condor and Mark would join Coin Talk.

I'm on Coin Talk, pretty much every day. In fact I'm just about the longest term member there.  I joined back in Sept 2002 just a few days after the forum began. I think I have a little over 20,000 posts there.  Member number 66.  (I think the member numbers are around 15,000 now.)  I believe RWB is also a member there but doesn't show up much.  Not sure about Mark.

[RWB]

3 hours ago, Conder101 said:

I believe RWB is also a member there but doesn't show up much.  Not sure about Mark.

Yep. Little to pique my interest, though. Time is important to me and I want it to be productive, and hopefully, useful.

Edited September 5, 2020 by RWB

[physics-fan3.14]

3 minutes ago, RWB said:

Yep. Little to pique my interest, though. Time is important to me and I want it to be productive, and hopefully, useful.

Roger has answered direct questions on CoinTalk, and when I've asked him to respond and settle a dispute he's been willing to weigh in on occasion. 

One of the biggest losses of the NGC forums was when Bill Jones left this place, although he is active now on CoinTalk (under another name, and I'm not sure how many know he's the same person). 

[Henri Charriere]

1 hour ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

 

One of the biggest losses of the NGC forums was when Bill Jones left this place, although he is active now on CoinTalk (under another name, and I'm not sure how many know he's the same person). 

Source:  AUTHORIZED TRANSCRIPT OF RECORDED CONVERSATIONS  - Notable Breaches of Confidentiality.  Title III. (Coin Talk / 09.09.2020 / 0423 HRS.)

... So who blew my cover?...  Can't say... Can't say?  Or you don't want to tell me?... [unintelligible]... What the [expletive deleted] do I pay you for?... Okay, Schuster.... Schuster?... Arnold Schuster.  You know, the pi-guy.... You [expletive deleted] me?... [no response]....

Nice going, fizz!

[Zebo]

1 hour ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

Roger has answered direct questions on CoinTalk, and when I've asked him to respond and settle a dispute he's been willing to weigh in on occasion. 

One of the biggest losses of the NGC forums was when Bill Jones left this place, although he is active now on CoinTalk (under another name, and I'm not sure how many know he's the same person). 

Agree - I tried to talk Bill into coming back, but no dice so far. 

[physics-fan3.14]

.

Edited September 6, 2020 by physics-fan3.14

[physics-fan3.14]

38 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Agree - I tried to talk Bill into coming back, but no dice so far. 

Bill has bigger issues with corporate NGC that are unresolved. I haven't really figured out what those issues are, yet, but my understanding is that he feels extremely slighted by them. He's in self-exile at the time, until the issues are resolved. No idea what that will take. 

[Insider]

20 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Okay, let's freeze the frame right there, and scroll back... (Ahem, physics-fan-pi, etc. is excused from this exercise.)

In your initial post, you said, "The marks you see are commonly found on silver coins." 

Later, "What are the things that could commonly  cause this mark on a coin?"

And later still, "Yes, very COMMONLY!"

Now you refer to the "unusual/rare appearance of this defect."

What changed?

Great question!  At least one member is closely reading this discussion.  Its SHAPE!   Its shape makes it APPEAR to be caused by two (EDIT: 3 including the one I forgot below) of the other choices.  

NOTE one member's excellent evaluation: "A strike through or planchet flaw seem the most likely on this one for me. Giving the long, streaked appearance, some sort of lamination/delamination error was my first instinct on this coin.

Dumb me (old age) couldn't remember the other choice at the time (delamination) so I just added " 6. Other.  

 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Insider

[Insider]

20 hours ago, VKurtB said:

@Insider, a coupla questions:

1) Are we referencing those diagonal striations going from SW to NE? Is that what we're supposed to be looking at?

2) A basic quick look seems to show that we are looking at lighting coming fairly strongly from the right side. While that is perfectly okay, it is a somewhat unusual choice. Is it being too obtuse to ask if that's important?

3) We're looking at the coin's surface itself and there's nothing covering it, true?

 

Editorial comment - these are things I wouldn't even need to ask about if I were able to examine this coin " in the hand", the only way that makes sense, unless of course, one is an Internet-captive numismatist.

Yes.

So what.  The characteristic has been imaged with florescent light in the best orientation and enhancement to show all that is need to properly ID the characteristic if a numismatist has seen hundreds of these "surfaces."   Surface is another BIG CLUE because this characteristic has nothing to do with size or shape.  

True

Possibly true and probably why you have not made any attempt YET to ID the marks.  Every attempt (right or wrong provides an opportunity to learn.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Insider

[Insider]

14 hours ago, RWB said:

Yep. Little to pique my interest, though. Time is important to me and I want it to be productive, and hopefully, useful.

Well at this time there are more ACTIVE folks who would benefit from your posts over there!

[VKurtB]

2 hours ago, Insider said:

Well at this time there are more ACTIVE folks who would benefit from your posts over there!

I do “look into” CT from time to time and have found that it is even “thicker with” the sort of newbies who ask questions and then don’t accept the answers than this site is. Nothing gets my blood boiling quicker.

[VKurtB]

2 hours ago, Insider said:

Yes.

So what.  The characteristic has been imaged with florescent light in the best orientation and enhancement to show all that is need to properly ID the characteristic if a numismatist has seen hundreds of these "surfaces."   Surface is another BIG CLUE because this characteristic has nothing to do with size or shape.  

True

Possibly true and probably why you have not made any attempt YET to ID the marks.  Every attempt (right or wrong provides an opportunity to learn.

I think it’s intentional, by foolishness, not malice, post mint damage. aka Improper Cleaning. I really wish I could see it with an ANA standard lighting setup, though. Incandescent.  Sorry, picking on you about fluorescent lights is now similar to a Kantian “categorical imperative” for me.

Edited September 6, 2020 by VKurtB

[ldhair]

On 9/5/2020 at 10:11 AM, physics-fan3.14 said:

Recent threads seem to be dominated by a pair of trolls intent on destroying everything in an attempt to make themselves look good. One of them was kicked off CoinTalk for similar behavior, and the other has a penchant for rambling nonsensically. They seem to have no care or regard for actually discussing and learning, and that's a shame. These boards have seemed to have had a bit of a revival lately - but the "activity" is mostly comprised of these two going back and forth. 

Its really annoying, and I wish they would stop. 

It would be cool to come here for fun and to learn without all the trash from these same two. It makes it hard for me to follow the topic.

 

 

 

[Moxie15]

just curious as to who these two trolls might be

[VKurtB]

3 hours ago, Moxie15 said:

just curious as to who these two trolls might be

Me and Quintus Arrius, who else? I don’t “get out of the way” for people who have something to sell, and that makes me a troll. But since you are one who has taken the time to research my profile page, you may or may not agree. A lot of people who do not feel appropriately “worshipped” like to label those “blasphemers” as trolls. It makes them feel so “net savvy” and hip and “with it”. Iconoclasts are never tolerated well particularly by those who fancy themselves iconoclasts working for the "way it used to be".

Edited September 7, 2020 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

Thank you Prof. VKurtB!  I've racked up so many frequent flier miles that I actually had to scroll back to find out to whom Moxie, the guy with the moxie to suggest an infestation of trollishness, was directing his comment to and it turns out it's the same pi-guy who carelessly exposed the true identity of a former NGC Forum member now at CT, without that individual's express knowledge and permission, as set forth hereinabove in the proceeds of a mock federal wiretap.  (He also has an aversion to using apostrophes to indicate the possessive, which may be more egregious.) 

Tellingly, none (Idhair, Moxie, pi-guy) had anything substantive to contribute to the OP's quiz/discussion beyond their contagious (or well-choreographed) temper tantrums whereas we both had, earlier.

What about the diagnostic markers on those coins, gentlemen?  What's that? They're not?  And not bear claws either? Fine, then what are they and what caused them?  Any ideas? I have a slight edge over all of you: I can walk, talk, think, text and chew gum at the same time. Good nite, gentlemen!

[Insider]

This quiz has been answered on another forum (without all the fluff :  60 total posts.  16 are mine mostly to draw out the answer  Only 10 posts have to do with the quiz.  So due to lack of interest here, I'll post the answer with additional images Tuesday.  Then we can move on to one more quiz much easier.