1856 D G$1 Dahlonega obtained and a Swedish greeting! 0

[Martac]

Hello there, everyone!

My name is Joel, male in my 30s, from and living in Sweden. 

Although I’ve always been collecting things growing up, not too long ago all things numismatic suddenly caught my attention. 

I’ve never been a part of a community where this interest is prevalent, but recent events have made it clear to me that I should at least try to.

So here I am, a newcomer to the NGC forums! Eager to learn, perhaps share my knowledge of Swedish coins and hopefully find comments and/or answers to questions I have.

The matter at hand is that I just recently (yesterday) obtained an American coin from another Swedish man who allegedly purchased the coin about 10 years ago. The coin was authenticated in Germany around that same time.

Said coin is a: 

1856 D G$1 Dahlonega (Type I I I ) 

Research shows the total mintage being 1460 with an estimated number of surviving coins today ranging from 70 to 90 (ish)

I have found a great deal of information online about the coin and I feel I have quite good understanding of its’ rarity and rough estimates of value following different grades of quality.

However, because of the low volume of coins available, the number of sales/auctions/transactions is even lower. The majority of which reported quite some time ago.

I ask you, the much more experienced and knowledgeable people, what would be your main guideline how to ascertain value with the aspect of rarity in mind (not regarding grade).

Furthermore, with me and the coin being situated in Sweden, what would be your two cents of the best course of action getting the coin graded? Especially with the ongoing pandemic.

I am sure I have more questions I would love to have answered, but I sincerely appreciate if anyone would share their thoughts and perhaps shed some more light over my situation.

I am currently pondering the best way possible to find a new home for my little fella in the end, in case someone wondered about the end goal of it all!

 

Enclosing two pictures as well. Not edited at all, other than cropped.

 

 

Regards,

(Martac)

Joel from Sweden

Edited July 29, 2020 by Martac
Accidental post prior to being finished. Pardon me.

[JKK]

Välkommen i forumen. Jag talar lite svenska.

Your big question here is authenticity, and having it authenticated in Germany would be dubious to me. I'm not expert on gold of that era but I am sure that all rare issues have been heavily counterfeited. While the devices look a little fuzzy in the (excellent obverse and reverse; thank you) pics, I recognize that the actual piece is a tiny dinky thing maybe 10mm across and that every one of those marks is minute. Ultimately I think you'll need to send it to an American grading service to answer that question.

If you're looking to sell it, this gets easier because the auction house would handle the grading submission (in fact, they would insist on it). I would email Great Collections and Heritage Auctions, for starters, and ask about their interest. Such a shipment would need to be insured, and at least GC's insurance covers shipments in prescribed form. That could save you the painful question of how much you should insure the shipment for. In GC's case I believe it's FedEx; at least, last year when I sent them what ultimately hammered for US$150K in gold coins, that's how they wanted us to send it. And if the auction house looks at the photos and doubts authenticity, that too would be good to know. They're used to handling rarities.

[James_OldeTowne]

Regrettably, the surface texture reminds me of a coin used as a "jewelry piece".  Even for a somewhat better date, this will play a major role in grade and/or value.

[Martac]

Tack för dina ord, JKK ^^.
First of all I’d like to thank you for taking your time to respond to the thread. Great pointers!
At the moment I am having a dialogue with a company in Hamburg, Germany, who in turn have a relationship with Heritage auctions. From what I have been able to gather, Heritage auctions have In the past successfully hammered a number of these coins in particular. 
I have mentioned the past authentication to the company from Hamburg, their response assuring in that said instance is well respected. However, I’ll try to reach them myself and try my luck in confirming if such a meeting over this coin ever occurred. Thanks :).

Personally, I believe that if the coin would turn out to be counterfeit, the previous owner couldn’t possibly have been aware of this. The circumstances surrounding the whole ordeal is enough to assure me that I can rule that out at least. (Obviously contradicts the whole authenticity story but yeh yeh :p) Ofc, one could never be sure, but Sweden is microscopic compared to the US and hopefully I still remember hide-and-seek since childhood  haha! 

I will snap a few more pictures without directed light, if that perhaps could rule out the “jewelry piece” hunch you felt James_OldTowne?  
I mean, obviously studying it IRL can’t be compared with pictures, I know that, heh. 
I’ve also read about the kind of “frosty” luster these coins can/should have and feel that I could interpret that characteristic to this piece as well, if that adds to the positives, I’m unsure.

But if one would put all questionable aspects (like fake, cleaned, prev. mounted etc) aside, how would you otherwise judge the quality? In comparison to some other pieces, my own gut tells me that it’s condition is promising.

Well, I’m looking forward to tomorrow and what news it could bring. I appreciate the welcome!

Regards,

Joel

 

[Coinbuf]

I am no expert in gold coins of this era, but the overall mushy appearance of your coin is setting off the fake alarms in my mind.

[Martac]

All right! I took some more pictures without having a focused light on the coin. Perhaps this clears something up.

[Cj12]

Is this small print or worth anything sorry none here hi to al

[Greenstang]

Duplicate post on the Lincoln 

[gmarguli]

14 hours ago, Martac said:

I’ve also read about the kind of “frosty” luster these coins can/should have and feel that I could interpret that characteristic to this piece as well, if that adds to the positives, I’m unsure.

But if one would put all questionable aspects (like fake, cleaned, prev. mounted etc) aside, how would you otherwise judge the quality? In comparison to some other pieces, my own gut tells me that it’s condition is promising.

Without inspecting it in person (and Dahlonega gold dollars being far out of my area of expertise), the coin looks authentic. Gut feeling is that it was probably placed in jewelry when it was uncirculated. Since then it has been worn, polished, and probably cleaned in an ultrasonic cleaner many times. Not to mention that someone likely tried to hide some damage above the ES in States by tooling it. I suspect that if submitted, you would get AU Details. 

Since it sounds like you want it graded and you want to sell it, a place like Great Collections is pretty easy to use and has auctions running non-stop. They'll have it graded for you and auction it off. You'll net 100% of hammer (they keep the 10% buyers fee). They get decent prices. Nothing against Heritage, they do a great job and will probably get a slightly higher price, but they charge a 20% buyers fee, so the company in Hamburg needs to have an agreement to get 107% of hammer. Also, it will take longer for you to get the sale proceeds with them. Their auctions are more sporadic. 

[Martac]

gmarguli - I greatly appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts! I will definitely check Great Collections out!

A blanket comparison between a graded AU50 and AU Details, what general guideline/template should one have in mind regarding possible and/or probable value? 

[JKK]

8 minutes ago, Martac said:

gmarguli - I greatly appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts! I will definitely check Great Collections out!

A blanket comparison between a graded AU50 and AU Details, what general guideline/template should one have in mind regarding possible and/or probable value? 

I have used GC and I think they'd be a good call for this piece. In the Swedish system I think it would get a 1 to 1+, presuming it comes back authentic. Det är frågan.

[gmarguli]

There is a PCGS AU50 for sale right now at $9250. The coin is in an older PCGS slab and appears like could possibly upgrade a little. 

Your coin has a lot of problems, but doesn't look bad considering everything going on with it. Given the rarity of this piece, I'd guess you'd get 50%-60% of a problem free example, so if it comes back AU, somewhere around $5,000. 

[James_OldeTowne]

18 hours ago, James_OldeTowne said:

Regrettably, the surface texture reminds me of a coin used as a "jewelry piece".  Even for a somewhat better date, this will play a major role in grade and/or value.

With the new photos, I stand by my earlier comment.  Additionally, I believe it has been holed and plugged.

My guess as to value is $2000 - $3000.

[jtryka]

What does the edge look like?

[Martac]

Once again, thanks for everyone’s input! I will get some good pictures uploaded on the edges asap:)

[CharlotteDude]

Welcome!  Your coin looks authentic with spot-on Dahlonega striking characteristics on the "U" of UNITED, the "5" in the date, and obverse dentil weakness from 7-8 o'clock. The time it obviously spent in a piece of jewelry also attributed to the overall "mushy" look.  Unfortunately, as an ex-jewelry piece, its value is significantly reduced, probably by half of what a fully original piece of the same grade would bring.  Still a rare coin and probably has a great story behind it as to how it made it over to Europe.