Could this be a new discovery of a Roosevelt dime with a special matte finish ?!?!?! 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

5 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

That’s easy to explain. CU will ban you and CT is run by egotistical maniacs 

Copper will ban you... and Connecticut is run by maniacs.  Huh?

[ldhair]

12 hours ago, Insider said:

He didn't have an answer, he just spoke the TRUTH.   Every so often threads as this occur and they go on and on.  They are usually less entertaining than this one. 

It's 12:30 where I live in FL.  Richie, you seem to be a night owl too.   

 

4 hours ago, World Colonial said:

Obviously, I (and others here) place more reliance on them than the two of  you, especially in the absence of any evidence which neither of you have provided..

Since you seem to believe his claim is credible, why don't you try explaining:

What reason is there to believe it is an "undiscovered" coin?  

How many times has this happened with a comparable modern US coin and how is it relevant to this one?

I'd also like to know what testing you plan to underwrite on his behalf.  Presumably it's a genuine FDR dime.  What else do you expect any test to disclose?

Honest questions but they won't answer because they don't have any answers. They have no proof that it's something undiscovered. At the same time I don't see a way to prove that it's not. Several of the best minds in the business both here and over on CT have gave opinions. I trust those opinions to be as good as a person can get. I don't know of any type of test that could ever clear this up. 

We can keep posting to the thread and being insulted by the OP. That's about all the OP has to offer at this point. 

[ldhair]

10 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Copper will ban you... and Connecticut is run by maniacs.  Huh?

I'm sure you are joking.

[Henri Charriere]

4 minutes ago, ldhair said:

I'm sure you are joking.

I am, Sir. (Love that lovely eagle in flight!)

[ldhair]

15 hours ago, World Colonial said:

In 14 years on this forum and both reading and participating on others, I don't recall another thread which is worse than this one.

Same here and I'm at 18 years. This thread is a bit different. In the past, the long threads had many on both sides of the issue. With this thread there are are only two with a different opinion and they have shown that they know nothing about the hobby or the topic. 

[Alex in PA.]

55 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

That’s easy to explain. CU will ban you if you so much as hint that their grading firm isn’t perfect, and CT is run by egotistical maniacs who are both blind and stupid, or going senile. So what’s left?

VkurtB:  I wasn't referring to Collector's Universe.  

Alex said:  "it's a miracle NGC kept this forum up."

[Henri Charriere]

5 minutes ago, ldhair said:

Same here and I'm at 18 years. This thread is a bit different. In the past, the long threads had many on both sides of the issue. With this thread there are are only two with a different opinion and they have shown that they know nothing about the hobby or the topic. 

Correction:  "I'm the only Irishman here!"  (Jimmy Conway, Goodefellas, 1990).  I have no opinion on the issue or desired outcome.  I am only interesting in seeing that one of our own gets a fair shake on this forum.  I believe we have long ago reached an impasse with neither side able to come up with anything substantive to add to the comments previously made.

[Henri Charriere]

16 minutes ago, ldhair said:

With this thread there are are only two with a different opinion and they have shown that they know nothing about the hobby or the topic. 

What must a corner man need to know about boxing?  The referee is the one making all the calls. This heavyweight championship fight is a draw with no winners. A stalemate, as it were.  Capisce?  Fuhgettaboutit!

[Coinbuf]

1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:

What must a corner man need to know about boxing?  The referee is the one making all the calls. This heavyweight championship fight is a draw with no winners. A stalemate, as it were.  Capisce?  Fuhgettaboutit!

Actually I believe that both you and the op have lost, both of you have shown a complete lack of the fundamentals of the coin coining process and have lost whatever credibility you had coming into this thread.  You have made several threats to send this in and get a definitive answer yet no action, zero.  You both talk a ton but your actions tell the real story and we all see the truth.

[rrantique]

[Henri Charriere]

39 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

Actually I believe that both you and the op have lost, both of you have shown a complete lack of the fundamentals of the coin coining process and have lost whatever credibility you had coming into this thread.  You have made several threats to send this in and get a definitive answer yet no action, zero.  You both talk a ton but your actions tell the real story and we all see the truth.

If everything you and the quite vocal heavyweight contenders on this thread have opined, is true -- and remember, I am not taking sides in this matter -- what purpose would be served in sending it in? Who on The Forum would vote to send in something all of you, with 150+ aggregate years of expert and/or professional experience amongst you, have deemed to be worth no more than ten cents? None, not a one!  Hence the designated disposition: draw.

[Thanks, nevertheless, for your complicity in contributing to the longevity of this possibly Greatest Of All Time Thread!]

[Henri Charriere]

2 hours ago, ldhair said:

With this thread there are are only two with a different opinion....

I graduated in the top 90% of my class in elementary school. Only two? Not everyone is willing to risk all, very publicly, in assuming a precarious position in a decidedly unpopular cause, and so they withhold comment.  I am fortunate in that I have nothing to lose -- and would not care a whit if I did.  I may have been dismissed as a rank amateur and denounced as a Troll (yes, Capital T) but I had the mettle, the intestinal fortitude, as it were, to rebuff the likes of Coinbuf.  There, I feel better already!

[Coinbuf]

41 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

If everything you and the quite vocal heavyweight contenders on this thread have opined, is true -- and remember, I am not taking sides in this matter -- what purpose would be served in sending it in? Who on The Forum would vote to send in something all of you, with 150+ aggregate years of expert and/or professional experience amongst you, have deemed to be worth no more than ten cents? None, not a one!  Hence the designated disposition: draw.

[Thanks, nevertheless, for your complicity in contributing to the longevity of this possibly Greatest Of All Time Thread!]

As usual and the norm for you just another excuse, another reason to tuck tail and run, what a show of intestinal fortitude.  

[World Colonial]

1 hour ago, Coinbuf said:

Actually I believe that both you and the op have lost, both of you have shown a complete lack of the fundamentals of the coin coining process and have lost whatever credibility you had coming into this thread.  You have made several threats to send this in and get a definitive answer yet no action, zero.  You both talk a ton but your actions tell the real story and we all see the truth.

What you state is an accurate description of both their posts but it's more than that; a complete disregard for logic that doesn't just apply to this coin or even coin collecting.

Both of them write their posts as if this claim has merit and it's up to those who disagree with it to disprove it.  That's why I wrote my earlier post that it's the equivalent of disproving a negative.  Using this reasoning, anyone can make up practically anything and it's supposed to be taken seriously?  It is completely nonsensical.

[Henri Charriere]

11 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

As usual and the norm for you just another excuse, another reason to tuck tail and run, what a show of intestinal fortitude.  

You may characterize it any way you wish.

RichieRich2020 was decimated on this thread for allegedly rejecting the advice of one apparently highly regarded coin expert.

I am not going to dismiss the collective opinions of certified experts and professionals who, carrying the weight of the hobby on their shoulders, took the time and trouble to weigh in on this matter, to entertain you and others amused by what has degenerated into a sideshow.  They see no point in making the submission.  A unanimous finding.  I concur.  In the absence of cold hard facts, I have little choice. "You've got to know when to hold 'em.  Know when to fold 'em.  Know when to walk away.  And know when to run..."

[bsshog40]

13 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

 

RichieRich2020 was decimated on this thread for allegedly rejecting the advice of one apparently highly regarded coin expert.

 

He has disregarded everybody's advice and opinion in this thread! And you are more of an instigator that tries to keep pumping the sewage thru the pipe!!!

[ldhair]

1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:

RichieRich2020 was decimated on this thread for allegedly rejecting the advice of one apparently highly regarded coin expert.

I'm not going to count them but between here and the thread over on CT the count is about 10 or 12 highly regarded experts. 

[RichieRich2020]

9 hours ago, ldhair said:

 

Honest questions but they won't answer because they don't have any answers. They have no proof that it's something undiscovered. At the same time I don't see a way to prove that it's not. Several of the best minds in the business both here and over on CT have gave opinions. I trust those opinions to be as good as a person can get. I don't know of any type of test that could ever clear this up. 

We can keep posting to the thread and being insulted by the OP. That's about all the OP has to offer at this point. 

Well actually I was simply just trying to take a break and avoid any more negative comments ... But since you seem to genuinely want to know or THINK that I don't have an answer then please allow me to be very clear for ANYONE ELSE reading the post .... You see so far all the OPINIONS THAT I'VE RECEIVED FROM THE POST AND EXPERTS ARE JUST OPINIONS AND NOTHING MORE . OR AT BEST ,  THEY ARE ONLY ( EXPERT - GUESSES ) . And so what I'm hoping to find is an expert who actually specializes in conducting ACCURATE TEST to actually authenticate the coins finish as opposed to simply giving the coin EXPERT GUESSES ...  Because you see there is clearly a HUGE DIFFERENCE when AN EXPERT is giving AN OPINION as opposed to when AN EXPERT IS ACTUALLY AUTHENTICATING A COIN and that's what makes a big difference ...   Infact I've even shared articles to show why this is very important in determining a coins actual authenticity .... Like the article I shared showing how several experts made the mistake of saying that a particular coin was a fake when infact it later turned out to be a rare coin worth millions . Which is why I could not be bullied or intimated into simply accepting the EXPERT GUESSES that the coin was simply the product of Environmental damage .... DESPITE the obvious photos showing and proving that the coin actually has a VERY EVEN and VERY SMOOTH FROSTY FINISH unlike all other Roosevelt dimes in the world .... But anyway ... Hopefully the coin will be carefully examined and properly authenticated so that I won't have to be like the guy who has a very unique coin that the grading company won't say is bad but yet wont authenticate it either ...

Edited August 17, 2020 by RichieRich2020

[Henri Charriere]

1 hour ago, ldhair said:

1 hour ago, ldhair said:

I'm not going to count them but between here and the thread over on CT the count is about 10 or 12 highly regarded experts. 

 

Thank you, Idhair.

The highly regarded experts, sitting en banc, have handed down their decision.  I have reviewed all 377 posts on this thread and found the arguments as advanced by World Colonial, posted in just the past 24 hours, to be particularly compelling and am pleased they were bolstered by brief biographical sketches of the key participants. This matter goes way beyond pedestrian authentication and certification.  In view of all the comments made, I don't know that a successful resolution of this matter is ever going to be possible. And unless this thread is taken on a new trajectory with additional information, there would be little point in appealing a unanimous decision.

1 hour ago, ldhair said:

 

 

1 hour ago, ldhair said:

 

 

[RichieRich2020]

2 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Thank you, Idhair.

The highly regarded experts, sitting en banc, have handed down their decision.  I have reviewed all 377 posts on this thread and found the arguments as advanced by World Colonial, posted in just the past 24 hours, to be particularly compelling and am pleased they were bolstered by brief biographical sketches of the key participants. This matter goes way beyond pedestrian authentication and certification.  In view of all the comments made, I don't know that a successful resolution of this matter is ever going to be possible. And unless this thread is taken on a new trajectory with additional information, there would be little point in appealing a unanimous decision.

 

 

Well to put it simply ... If reaching a FINDING OF FACT is based solely on the number of EXPERTS GUESSING as opposed to an EXPERT actually conducting a physical test to determine how a coins finish was actually applied ... Then I must say that I do not wish to participate in those kind of coin groups because status and reputation outweighs accurate findings ... 

[kbbpll]

Let's change this thread to "Post your special matte finish coins". Here's mine.

[kbbpll]

By the way, I have the MICROSCOPIC EVIDENCE to prove that this is a SPECIAL MATTE FINISH COIN and it is a NEW DISCOVERY. I estimate that it is worth ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

[RichieRich2020]

4 hours ago, kbbpll said:

By the way, I have the MICROSCOPIC EVIDENCE to prove that this is a SPECIAL MATTE FINISH COIN and it is a NEW DISCOVERY. I estimate that it is worth ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

No heres a very good idea ... how about you simply create your own post to show other serious coin collectors how to be taken seriously ... And please dont get me wrong because I think i get it ... since its very apparent that most of you could really care less about the coins actual finish .... INFACT alot of you if not all of you in the post simply have some personal GRUDGE with the fact that i simply did not just except being told that its environmental damage or an altered coin by the experts , who never bothered to offer even the slightest break down to show others how that's possible let alone without showing a single example of a coin with the same frosted finish that is remotely close to the coin in the photos ...

Furthermore this is where it might sting just a little bit .... You see in my expert opinion a opinion is simply AN OPINION it is not a PROVEN FACT nor can any COIN EXPERT AUTHENTICATE THE COINS FINISH BY GUESSING . 

 And so now I CHALLENGE ANYONE in this post to show a single clad coin that exhibits the same EVEN FROSTED FINISH caused by environmental damage ... IF NOT I MUST FOREVER QUESTION THE REAL MOTIVATION BEHIND EACH AND EVERY COMMENT AND NEGATIVE OPINION IN THIS POST ....

Because you see unlike many of the people in this post I can stand being wrong about a coin but what I won't continue to do is entertain anymore of this IMMATURE trash talk and these OPINIONS that are clearly motivated solely by GUESSING AND EGOS ... 

Edited August 17, 2020 by RichieRich2020

[Morpheus1967]

7 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

In view of all the comments made, I don't know that a successful resolution of this matter is ever going to be possible. And unless this thread is taken on a new trajectory with additional information, there would be little point in appealing a unanimous decision.

 

 

Yes, there is a way to a successful resolution.  It's done by simply sending the coin in for grading.  Which you offered to pay for.  And yet the OP does not accept, and continues with his nonsense.  

[ldhair]

7 hours ago, RichieRich2020 said:

EXPERT actually conducting a physical test to determine how a coins finish was actually applied

What physical test would the expert do?

[RichieRich2020]

54 minutes ago, ldhair said:

What physical test would the expert do?

Well I thought it would kind of be obvious : But for starters I would think that they could simply have the same special finish process that is applied on other coins at the mint to be applied on another dime and simply compare these two results . Either that or simply have the mint employees who creates these special finishes for mint attempt to verify any distinct details from the coin in the minting process ... 

[bsshog40]

1 hour ago, ldhair said:

What physical test would the expert do?

They could do a scratch test. 

[World Colonial]

1 hour ago, RichieRich2020 said:

Well I thought it would kind of be obvious : But for starters I would think that they could simply have the same special finish process that is applied on other coins at the mint to be applied on another dime and simply compare these two results . Either that or simply have the mint employees who creates these special finishes for mint attempt to verify any distinct details from the coin in the minting process ... 

Any TPG can do what you propose by looking at the coin.  It is called the grading process.  The graders at the TPG know how the surface appearance on any coin should look when it left the mint, having evaluated in the vicinity of 100 million coins.  There is no need to send it anywhere else or test it as you want.   That's what you have been told here but won't accept. 

Inspection of your coin by the US Mint is never going to happen either.  Neither a TPG nor the US Mint are going to accommodate this type of request because they aren't going to waste their time performing any additional analysis on a not-at-all-different piece of circulating change.

Why aren't they going to do it? 

It's because of what I told where you claimed I had some ulterior motive for claiming it.  There is no record of a "matte" coin being struck for this date and mintmark combination and your unsubstantiated opinion doesn't constitute evidence that it ever happened.  No one else directly stated it, but it's also inferred in the comments here disagreeing with you. 

You don't like what you have been told but it doesn't change the outcome.  You can accept it - or not.

Edited August 17, 2020 by World Colonial

[World Colonial]

A further clarification on my prior comments.

I don't recall whether this is a "P" or a "D" coin and I'm not going back to the beginning of the thread.  For this coin to be a matte proof, there two are potential possibilities, neither of which are believable.  Philadelphia hasn't struck any since 1964 and I have never heard of a Denver proof for any coin, not even the few branch mint proofs.

First, either mint could have struck one coin and out of hundreds of millions struck this year, the OP could have by miraculous circumstances come to posses it.  There is no plausible explanation why either mint would have done it and even if it happened, the OP having it is about as likely as winning the Powerball lottery.

Second, either mint could have struck "many".  But if they did, it is far more believable that a record would exist and someone reading either thread (here or on CT) would be aware of it.  This isn't a pattern, trial or experimental piece where there may be some prior discovery that I or others don't know.

Another possibility which I don't recall being discussed is that this coin might posses a PL appearance.  This would account for the supposed "special finish" which is nothing more than one of the first business strikes off the die which occasionally show up.

If this is a PL, it might be "rare" but there is nothing significant about it and most of the value (practically all of it) is contingent on the TPG grade.  I infer this because he mentioned someone else having a similar coin but on the reverse; a one-sided PL coin.

[VKurtB]

13 hours ago, RichieRich2020 said:

Well to put it simply ... If reaching a FINDING OF FACT is based solely on the number of EXPERTS GUESSING as opposed to an EXPERT actually conducting a physical test to determine how a coins finish was actually applied ... Then I must say that I do not wish to participate in those kind of coin groups because status and reputation outweighs accurate findings ... 

No body is EVER going to conduct a physical test on your coin because there is no test that can be useful.