Could this be a new discovery of a Roosevelt dime with a special matte finish ?!?!?! 1 1

[VKurtB]

2 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

I bask in the undeserving love and respect you shower me with VKurtB.

I guess there is a part of me that just wants to see the average Joe get a fair shake.

I have no enemies. I don't crave a following. You won't find me on social media.

As I have stated on a

prior occasion, I may not agree with everything everyone says, but I am constrained to defend, with my life, if necessary, everybody's right to express an opinion.

That, of course, includes you for whom I have a begrudging respect for as the very first person to try to cut me down to size on this Forum. On balance, Coinbuf's, simple "No," was far more devastating. I was forced to give up my job refereeing the RichieRich2020 super heavyweight world championship, from which there is no coming back.😉

 

Umm, hate to break it to you, but THIS is social media too.

[Henri Charriere]

25 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Umm, hate to break it to you, but THIS is social media.

 

[RonnieR131]

I could post a 1943 dime over a 1943 copper cent, and wouldn't get two replies. An amazing coin this one is, Twilight Zone stuff.  Stirred up a lot folks. 2020, I'll give you $20.20 for it. (tomorrow)

[VKurtB]

I own a dime every bit as matte and luster-absent as the OP’s, but it has magnificent detail. It was graded by the old ANACS, the small slab guys, in about 1994, as an MS60FSB. No, it’s not some special “discovery coin”; it’s merely a curiosity. It’s a 1935 Mercury dime. 

[Henri Charriere]

2 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

3 hours ago, VKurtB said:

Umm, hate to break it to you, but THIS is social media.

 

Fake News! I was hacked. All right, all right...  "I coulda been a contender!  I coulda had class!  I coulda been somebody!  Now I am a nobody!  I am nothing but a social media bum, thanks to V  Kurt  B."

Edited August 11, 2020 by Quintus Arrius
One missing letter.

[Henri Charriere]

Duplication 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Quintus Arrius
Duplication

[RichieRich2020]

On 8/9/2020 at 7:42 AM, MarkFeld said:

I made “Wondercoin” aware of this thread and I have copied his comments below. He is an extremely active and knowledgeable dealer, particularly in the area of moderns.

“Hi Mark.  Thank you for bringing to my attention this interesting modern coin thread.  First and foremost, it is wonderful to see the passion of the OP, “RichieRich2020”.  Whether he ultimately turns out to be “right” or “wrong”, it is still great to see all that passion for his dime.  And, second, it is equally wonderful to see all the experts and fellow collectors contributing their expertise to the OP.  This is what makes this hobby great and the NGC and PCGS message boards such an invaluable component to the coin collecting experience.

There are so many ultra-talented numismatists contributing to this thread (yourself included Mark) including Fred.  As we all know, Fred is one of the foremost authorities on United States errors, varieties and the coin striking processes at the Mint.

I see that Fred has determined the subject coin to be a regular business strike example and that after the dime was in circulation it somehow developed the “matte” surface appearance that the OP sees.  I believe Fred probably put the word “matte” in quotes  so as to not confuse what he was suggesting with someone thinking Fred determined the coin had, indeed, a different US Mint striking process applied to it when struck.  But, any confusion on that interpretation can easily be verified in a short follow up letter from Fred.

My strong expertise is in the valuation of United States modern coins (1932-date).  I recently testified on behalf of the United States Department of Justice in a federal case as a Court approved expert on modern coin valuation.  My extensive valuation report and live Court testimony led to a very decisive victory for the DOJ.  Obviously, before I would complete my evaluation of the fair market value of this dime, I would need to “pin down” what exactly we had here.  Fred’s analysis of the dime would be very important to my valuation analysis as would other opinions I would use to formulate my valuation opinion.

I see a diagnostic marker on the reverse of the coin left of the upper torch area directly below the flame.  I am wondering if this marker might be useful in finding another matching dime (with a similar marker) to perhaps help in concluding the origin of the subject dime?  Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

In conclusion, of course if I was the owner of this dime, I would not be satisfied to hear my dime was worth just ten cents.  I would want to devote much more time and energy to figure out exactly what happened with this coin either before or after the striking process.  I might be curious to see if I could find a matching dime of this date with the diagnostic marker(s) I discussed.  I would also be very thankful to be getting all this free support and assistance from so many talented numismatists on this message board.

Best of luck to the OP!”

 

Well i must admit that I am very impressed and very amazed at Mr Wondercoins well thought out reply . Especially with regards to the fact that he doesn't appear to be the least bit interested in picking sides on the coins finish . Which i must add is a big surprise since I kind of expected he would be given all the replies here . Infact to my astonishment he seems to only be focused solely on the TRUE QUESTION at hand here ...  Regarding the authenticity of the coin and the coins finish . Which is why I must give Me Wondercoins opinion the utmost respect .... As a matter of fact i have to say that this is the kind of collector and expert who I would love to learn more from among a few others and soak up as much coin collecting knowledge as I could one day because I don't sense that his Ego would ever be an issue while trying to reach a sound and solid conclusion about a particular coin ... I've enjoyed the way that he thoroughly assessed important details of the coin and so I think we all could stand to learn a little in that important regard ... But either way with all that being said . Although HE NEVER AGREED NOR TOTALLY DISAPPROVE OF THE COINS FINISH . I DID CLEARLY NOTICE THAT HE WAS VERY SURE TO POINT OUT THE MARKER ON THE COIN WHICH I PERSONALLY THINK IS A VERY SENSIBLE AND GOOD POINT TO LOOK INTO . And I would also like to thank Mr. Markfeld for sharing this wonderful and professional exchange between him and Mr Wondercoins ...it is truly appreciated .

Edited August 11, 2020 by RichieRich2020

[Conder101]

On 8/7/2020 at 4:24 AM, RichieRich2020 said:

Im still very curious as to what one might value such a unique coin ... Especially in the case that Im correct and it has a special unique finish which no other collector has ? 

I value it at ten cents.

[RichieRich2020]

5 hours ago, VKurtB said:

I own a dime every bit as matte and luster-absent as the OP’s, but it has magnificent detail. It was graded by the old ANACS, the small slab guys, in about 1994, as an MS60FSB. No, it’s not some special “discovery coin”; it’s merely a curiosity. It’s a 1935 Mercury dime. 

Well Please feel free to share ... Because i would love to see what this Matte finish dime looks like .... 

[RonnieR131]

I knew you wouldn't sell it so cheap, it has so much documented history. Thirty dollars, last offer.   Edit: How about a '55 doubled die and a 1951 Bowman #305 Willie Mays Rookie card.

Edited August 11, 2020 by ronnie stein

[Henri Charriere]

Well, there you have it. The OP; the party who made a suggestion; various parties (with a herd mentality) who, quick on the collective trigger, shot the perfectly good proposal down in cold blood; the referral itself; and notably one party who spat out, I don't want to hear anything more about "that dime." Then the good part: the party to whom the matter was referred -- amid a chorus of those who cried out, Don't waste his time like you wasted ours, graciously accepts, and the OP -- whom countless parties railed against and vilified as a troll who had already made up his own mind and would never accept a finding contrary to his own, surprises all other parties by humbly accepting news of the exchange which MF was not obligated to share. And through it all an intriguing aspect emerges: a "diagnostic marker," which one party, ME!, was quick to dismiss as nothing more than pigeon poop. This is merely an introduction; much work remains to be done. I do hope the OP follows through on the promising lead discovered. My best to all those who made this production possible. (I have to go now before someone realizes I broke my promise to remain off this thread.) 😉

[VKurtB]

6 hours ago, RichieRich2020 said:

Well Please feel free to share ... Because i would love to see what this Matte finish dime looks like .... 

I’ll dig it out tonight and slap it under the ol’ stereo microscope. The lesson here is just because something’s “different”, that doesn’t make it special or important. 
 

Seriously? You’re up at 2 something in the morning posting about this piece of junk you own?

Edited August 11, 2020 by VKurtB

[RonnieR131]

Just never mind, spoon it, I'm 'goin fishn'.

[RichieRich2020]

5 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Well, there you have it. The OP; the party who made a suggestion; various parties (with a herd mentality) who, quick on the collective trigger, shot the perfectly good proposal down in cold blood; the referral itself; and notably one party who spat out, I don't want to hear anything more about "that dime." Then the good part: the party to whom the matter was referred -- amid a chorus of those who cried out, Don't waste his time like you wasted ours, graciously accepts, and the OP -- whom countless parties railed against and vilified as a troll who had already made up his own mind and would never accept a finding contrary to his own, surprises all other parties by humbly accepting news of the exchange which MF was not obligated to share. And through it all an intriguing aspect emerges: a "diagnostic marker," which one party, ME!, was quick to dismiss as nothing more than pigeon poop. This is merely an introduction; much work remains to be done. I do hope the OP follows through on the promising lead discovered. My best to all those who made this production possible. (I have to go now before someone realizes I broke my promise to remain off this thread.)

 

Quote

😉No please don't go just yet ... Because i believe that your creative expressions and dialogue make the post extremely unique in my book . So without a impartial referee It would simply just be another boring post where the old wise ones attempt to overwhelm and out number the newcombers to deter them from second guessing or challenging their opinions . So we actually need you here man !!!

Edited August 11, 2020 by RichieRich2020

[RichieRich2020]

4 hours ago, VKurtB said:

I’ll dig it out tonight and slap it under the ol’ stereo microscope. The lesson here is just because something’s “different”, that doesn’t make it special or important. 
 

Seriously? You’re up at 2 something in the morning posting about this piece of junk you own?

Yep well it might be junk to you but its treasure to me .... And I'm looking forward to seeing your Matte finish junk as well.  Lol

[VKurtB]

1 minute ago, RichieRich2020 said:

Yep well it might be junk to you but its treasure to me .... And I'm looking forward to seeing your Matte finish junk as well.  Lol

I believe my trash hauler had a pearl of wisdom similar to that on his trucks. 

[RichieRich2020]

43 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

I believe my trash hauler had a pearl of wisdom similar to that on his trucks. 

And I believe that my ALLEGED lack of wisdom may hopefully someday teach a few wise ones how not to be so quick to rule out a particular coin as eviormental damage without first giving it the real diagnostic and examination it requires inorder to reach a accurate opinion ... in otherwords the environmental damage theory has gotten so popular in coin circles that it appears that most coin experts and seasoned collectors no longer believe in examining each coin thorughly anymore for little things like DIE MAKERS which could be very HELPFUL  as the article below trys explains the IMPORTANTANCE of on a few other Dimes ironically ...

Edited August 11, 2020 by RichieRich2020

[kbbpll]

My god, this has been going on for two and a half weeks. Somebody start a gofundme for the submission fees on the condition that the OP posts the slab and let's put this thing out of its misery.

[RichieRich2020]

1 hour ago, kbbpll said:

My god, this has been going on for two and a half weeks. Somebody start a gofundme for the submission fees on the condition that the OP posts the slab and let's put this thing out of its misery.

Seems like someone don't appreciate the opinions of the other well respected Experts either you guys ..... SO LET'S GET HIM !!! 

Edited August 11, 2020 by RichieRich2020

[VKurtB]

59 minutes ago, RichieRich2020 said:

And I believe that my ALLEGED lack of wisdom may hopefully someday teach a few wise ones how not to be so quick to rule out a particular coin as eviormental damage without first giving it the real diagnostic and examination it requires inorder to reach a accurate opinion ... in otherwords the environmental damage theory has gotten so popular in coin circles that it appears that most coin experts and seasoned collectors no longer believe in examining each coin thorughly anymore for little things like DIE MAKERS which could be very HELPFUL  as the article below trys explains the IMPORTANTANCE of on a few other Dimes ironically ...

I hope you’re aware that the author of this article has already weighed in here. 

[RichieRich2020]

6 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

I hope you’re aware that the author of this article has already weighed in here. 

Well that's very odd . Especially considering the fact that NO ONE here ever bothered to mention to look for any die markers on the coin except for Mr Wondercoins of course .  Which kind of makes a person wonder ... why that is

You see . If you ask me I think that most people were more focused on attacking the OP and his irrelevant coin that they TOTALLY forgot to mention A WHOLE ARTICLE that explains all the important aspects it takes when authenticing a coin but then again maybe I'm just reading that part of HIS article wrong ...   .  

[Just Bob]

4 hours ago, RichieRich2020 said:

Well that's very odd . Especially considering the fact that NO ONE here ever bothered to mention to look for any die markers on the coin except for Mr Wondercoins of course .  Which kind of makes a person wonder ... why that is

You see . If you ask me I think that most people were more focused on attacking the OP and his irrelevant coin that they TOTALLY forgot to mention A WHOLE ARTICLE that explains all the important aspects it takes when authenticing a coin but then again maybe I'm just reading that part of HIS article wrong ...   .  

Please explain how you intend to use this new information that you have learned about die markers to authenticate the "special frosted finish" that you feel your coin has. I honestly do not understand how it will affect the identification either way.

[RichieRich2020]

33 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

Please explain how you intend to use this new information that you have learned about die markers to authenticate the "special frosted finish" that you feel your coin has. I honestly do not understand how it will affect the identification either way.

Well im not sure how that's possible either ... Because I thought that the die marker only identifies that the coin is real and was created at the mint . LOL  

Edited August 12, 2020 by RichieRich2020

[Coinbuf]

2 hours ago, RichieRich2020 said:

Well im not sure how that's possible either ... Because I thought that the die marker only identifies that the coin is real and was created at the mint . LOL  

The only thing that die marker (if it really is one) (and if you can find another 1993-d dime with the same marker) will tell you is that more than one coin was coined from that obv die.  And if you are able to find another dime with that marker and its not the same matte finish then you will know yours was altered after it left the mint.  Sounds like a lifetime search for the proverbial needle in a haystack, good luck.

[RichieRich2020]

58 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

The only thing that die marker (if it really is one) (and if you can find another 1993-d dime with the same marker) will tell you is that more than one coin was coined from that obv die.  And if you are able to find another dime with that marker and its not the same matte finish then you will know yours was altered after it left the mint.  Sounds like a lifetime search for the proverbial needle in a haystack, good luck.

Well i have to say that I am now beyond happy and actually at lost for words at this point . Because you see Coinbuf . The truth of the matter is for very long time now I've held a little small important detail to myself that I now believe holds a very significant and valuable key to this Matte Finish Coin mystery . You see the FACT is a long time ago when I first shared the coin in a coin group. Another person actually shared a dime with the EXACT SAME MATTE FINISH on the reverse of his coin as well but not the Obverse and at that time I really didn't think it mattered too much UNTIL NOW . Because you see if his coin contained the same finish as mines it now tells us that the coins finish was infact put there at the mint . And so now all I need to do is remember if it was the cointalk group or another coin group who shared the reverse matte finish coin and VERIFY if the finish was experimental or a Special finish that the mint abandoned and simply never spoke of that somehow got out into circulation  . But either way .... THANK YOU Coinbuf your the best . 

Edited August 12, 2020 by RichieRich2020

[RichieRich2020]

On 7/27/2020 at 8:02 PM, Just Bob said:

I would like to add just one more thing for future readers of this thread. The idea that, even if this coin were the real deal, and unique, it would be "priceless," is purely wishful thinking. In order for this, or any coin, to bring really big money, there has to be strong demand among collectors with deep pockets. Generally speaking, the numismatic heavy hitters do not collect Roosevelt dimes

Or, error coins.

Well call me crazy . But generally speaking .... To say that a serious collector who doesn't have Roosevelt Dimes in their collection would not want to be the only person in the world with a Special Finish Dime would be somewhat unrealistic wouldn't you say ???? 

And if that dime was the only known dime in the world with a Special Finish then it would also be impossible to say that its not priceless if that coin is A ONE OF KIND ... But then again maybe you can tell everyone reading this how someone could value such a coin because that would be very interesting ... 

Edited August 12, 2020 by RichieRich2020

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/9/2020 at 7:42 AM, MarkFeld said:

I made “Wondercoin” aware of this thread and I have copied his comments below. He is an extremely active and knowledgeable dealer, particularly in the area of moderns.

“Hi Mark. . . .

I see a diagnostic marker on the reverse of the coin left of the upper torch area directly below the flame.  I am wondering if this marker might be useful in finding another matching dime (with a similar marker) to perhaps help in concluding the origin of the subject dime?  Does anyone have any thoughts on that?. . . .

I might be curious to see if I could find a matching dime of this date with the diagnostic marker(s) I discussed.  

 

I believe some viewers are playing hard and fast with Wondercoin's area of expertise -- "valuation" of U.S. modern coins, circa the 1930's on up to the present. There is no equivocating -- no "if, on the matter of the "diagnostic marker," itself as Coinbuf suggests. And let's not be so quick to forget that this was the same expert whose time certain parties insisted we not waste deliberating over this matter. 

[Just Bob]

4 hours ago, RichieRich2020 said:

Well call me crazy . But generally speaking .... To say that a serious collector who doesn't have Roosevelt Dimes in their collection would not want to be the only person in the world with a Special Finish Dime would be somewhat unrealistic wouldn't you say ???? 

 

No, I don't think it is unrealistic at all. A serious collector who does not have Roosevelt dimes in their collection may not like Roosevelts, or Moderns in general, and may choose not to have any in their collection, regardless of the finish on the coin.  A collector of Trade Dollars or gold Double Eagles or Maria Theresa Thalers or Greek Staters (all buyers whom one would expect to have deep pockets) would probably not be interested in this coin at all. Even someone who is putting together an Eliasberg style set would probably pass on this coin, instead opting for a normal high grade example. The fact that you see this coin as special does not mean that every collector would.

5 hours ago, RichieRich2020 said:

And if that dime was the only known dime in the world with a Special Finish then it would also be impossible to say that its not priceless if that coin is A ONE OF KIND ... But then again maybe you can tell everyone reading this how someone could value such a coin because that would be very interesting ... 

Sure. I would be happy to. To evaluate a coin with a special finish, I would search past auctions on Ebay, Great Collections, Heritage, and other venues, and try to find some comparable examples. Keeping in mind that this is a modern clad, we can toss out gold coins and large classic silver coins, since, as stated above, collectors of these would likely pass on this coin. If the potential buyer views this as simply a novelty or even a unique error, a price in the hundreds is likely. If it is deemed a pattern, then a low six figure price is possible. An example somewhere in the middle would be the recent sale of a Boone Commemorative half dollar with an antiqued matte finish, which sold for $84,000, including the buyer's fee. At 20%, that would mean the hammer price was $70k. This is a silver classic commemorative, though, and, as such, would have a large following. I would not expect a clad Roosevelt to garner as much attention. Remember, a coin is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it at the moment it is being sold, so, at any given auction, it depends on who is buying, and how much they want the coin. If I were to give my personal opinion on what this coin, if the real deal, might bring at auction, I would estimate the value at somewhere between $1200 and $50,000. I know this is a really big range, but, again, it depends on who is buying, and how they perceive the coin. (And whether there is any competition in the bidding.)

These are my personal opinions. Feel free to accept or reject them as you wish.

[VKurtB]

35 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

No, I don't think it is unrealistic at all. A serious collector who does not have Roosevelt dimes in their collection may not like Roosevelts, or Moderns in general, and may choose not to have any in their collection, regardless of the finish on the coin.  A collector of Trade Dollars or gold Double Eagles or Maria Theresa Thalers or Greek Staters (all buyers whom one would expect to have deep pockets) would probably not be interested in this coin at all. Even someone who is putting together an Eliasberg style set would probably pass on this coin, instead opting for a normal high grade example. The fact that you see this coin as special does not mean that every collector would.

Sure. I would be happy to. To evaluate a coin with a special finish, I would search past auctions on Ebay, Great Collections, Heritage, and other venues, and try to find some comparable examples. Keeping in mind that this is a modern clad, we can toss out gold coins and large classic silver coins, since, as stated above, collectors of these would likely pass on this coin. If the potential buyer views this as simply a novelty or even a unique error, a price in the hundreds is likely. If it is deemed a pattern, then a low six figure price is possible. An example somewhere in the middle would be the recent sale of a Boone Commemorative half dollar with an antiqued matte finish, which sold for $84,000, including the buyer's fee. At 20%, that would mean the hammer price was $70k. This is a silver classic commemorative, though, and, as such, would have a large following. I would not expect a clad Roosevelt to garner as much attention. Remember, a coin is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it at the moment it is being sold, so, at any given auction, it depends on who is buying, and how much they want the coin. If I were to give my personal opinion on what this coin, if the real deal, might bring at auction, I would estimate the value at somewhere between $1200 and $50,000. I know this is a really big range, but, again, it depends on who is buying, and how they perceive the coin. (And whether there is any competition in the bidding.)

These are my personal opinions. Feel free to accept or reject them as you wish.

That's all IF it were to be what you say it is. In the much more likely case of the real world, it's ten cents.

[Just Bob]

I need to clarify something in my above post. When I mentioned the coin being deemed a pattern, I left out the fact that this would require verification from the mint itself, plus being listed in Judd or a similar listing of known patterns. This is unrealistic, considering that the dime is normal except for the finish, but I mentioned patterns because they often fall under the category of "unique," and so were included in my search for average prices. I believe the coin was altered after it left the mint, but, if it proved to be genuine, I think it would be viewed as an error coin, and would probably bring between one and two thousand dollars at auction at most.