I was not aware that we are in the middle of a coin shortage 2 2

[Modwriter]

11 hours ago, Conder101 said:

Yes, they have been studying that problem for 8 years now.  Still trying to find some metal they can use for the cent where its cost added to the 1.1 cent manufacturing cost will add up to less than 1 cent.  They just need to find a metal that costs negative .3 cents.

 

It's up to the Federal Reserve, they don't order any. the Mint won't make any. 

The cent will still be an authorized coin, but just because it is authorized doesn't mean you have to make it.  And if the mint makes them without orders from the Federal Reserve they will just pile up in storage at the Mint.

I did see the Mint Directors alternative metal reports for coins at the U.S. Mint website. It would be interesting to know if Secretary Mnuchin has suggested eliminating the penny or nickel to Congress yet. Former Democratic Presidential candidate Andrew Yang has suggested eliminating the penny and nickel.

[VKurtB]

3 minutes ago, Modwriter said:

I did see the Mint Directors alternative metal reports for coins at the U.S. Mint website. It would be interesting to know if Secretary Mnuchin has suggested eliminating the penny or nickel to Congress yet. Former Democratic Presidential candidate Andrew Yang has suggested eliminating the penny and nickel.

The Mint has been studying this, with emphasis on the nickel, since the copper price spike in 2011. There has been created a brand new heretofore unknown alloy of stainless steel that is ready to go should the Congress make the decision. Most of the work has been done by Carpenter Technologies of Reading, Pennsylvania. I have held some of the test strikes. Very nice work.

[Henri Charriere]

I must be getting senile in my old age. 

[VKurtB]

3 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

I must be getting senile in my old age. 

Eh, it happens. Try some Prevagen.

[kbbpll]

22 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

I have only once found brand new current year coins in a cash register from Denver where I live.

Conversely, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a current year P coin in change where I live, 60 miles from Denver mint. 

[VKurtB]

10 minutes ago, kbbpll said:

Conversely, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a current year P coin in change where I live, 60 miles from Denver mint. 

Which direction? North, South, East, or Up? 

[Henri Charriere]

15 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Eh, it happens. Try some Prevagen.

I am ashamed to say the thought has crossed my mind. After all, non-drinkers do not sit around agonizing over whether they may be alcoholics.

[Henri Charriere]

13 minutes ago, kbbpll said:

Conversely, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a current year P coin in change where I live, 60 miles from Denver mint. 

Hmm, on more than a few occasions, I have gotten crisp EPQ Federal Reserve banknotes seemingly straight off the press in Ft. Worth, destined for districts out west, like L Sacramento, in B New York. On only one occasion do I recall picking up a roll of coins from the Dahlonega or New Orleans mints. 😀😉

[Henri Charriere]

43 minutes ago, Modwriter said:

Former Democratic Presidential candidate Andrew Yang has suggested eliminating the penny and nickel.

He must have offended the penny people, greatly.

[VKurtB]

8 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

He must have offended the penny people, greatly.

As of my last conversation with U.S. Mint personnel, there is zero interest in eliminating the cent. The virus may have changed that.

[Modwriter]

News Release from U.S. Mint: https://click.email.usmint.gov/?qs=3f75d948173e1c7594295e98635fe9e44dffeeed93875d0c56f801da088b03c519216f3ae06c31f6ae5cc942fa56a545aca986ce9cf6b4ee 

[Conder101]

10 hours ago, VKurtB said:

But when demand for coins is high, the Mint produces more. When demand for coins is low, such as in 2009, fewer are made.

But production is still based on orders from the Federal Reserve.  If the Fed doesn't order them, the mint won't make them.  Back in 2009 when there was a glut of coins available it was the Fed informing the mint that they had a very large supply of dimes and nickels and they were wouldn't be needing more that cause the mint to end production.  It wasn't a decision of the mint on their own.  Congress authorizes, but it is the Federal Reserve that decides what circulation production will be.

[Just Bob]

2 hours ago, pogohatesme said:

I have not experienced it but my wife has so I thought I would see what you all have to say. My wife has been in a couple of stores that refused cash payment unless it was exact change. And in fact was in one particular that refused cash of any sort. 

I seen a post supposedly by a Congressman a couple weeks back that basically said that a store can not refuse legal tender. That if they did you could walk out with the merchandise and nothing could be done. Granted, with the "shortage", you and the store would have to come to some sort of compromise and you couldn't do it simply expecting to get something for free. But they couldn't flat refuse cash either.

 

What's ya'lls take on this?

I don't think I will test the congressman's theory. I'm not willing to risk jail over a bag of Cheetos.

[pogohatesme]

3 hours ago, Just Bob said:

I don't think I will test the congressman's theory. I'm not willing to risk jail over a bag of Cheetos.

I hear ya and I agree. I just find the whole thing absurd. 

On another note, mmm Cheetos, I think I figured out dinner haha

[Coinbuf]

4 hours ago, Just Bob said:

I don't think I will test the congressman's theory. I'm not willing to risk jail over a bag of Cheetos.

I'm with you!

[Conder101]

12 hours ago, Just Bob said:

I seen a post supposedly by a Congressman a couple weeks back that basically said that a store can not refuse legal tender. That if they did you could walk out with the merchandise and nothing could be done.

If so the Congressman is wrong.

[Henri Charriere]

34 minutes ago, Conder101 said:

If so the Congressman is wrong.

Notwithstanding New York City's bail reform measure clearly enacted to facilitate the closure of the municipal jails which has also had the effect of releasing on low- or no-bail serial bank robbers and gang bangers -- a number of whom have been referred to the federal courts... I agree. That's petit larceny, or by whatever name known in other jurisdictions.  [Aside: I once found a brand-new $100. bill torn 3x into eight pieces in a Chinatown trash basket which I recovered to piece together later at home, and discovered to my astonishment it was real. The dangling security threads were a dead giveaway. I posited a scenario whereby a local shopkeeper or shopkeepers refused to accept the bill in a transaction due to its unfamiliar features as compared with the old C-notes, and the rejected customer sat down in the local park and tore the bill up in frustration.] He couldn't take it to a bank. Technically, counterfeit bills are supposed to be confiscated though I have been handed back a questionable bill, now and again. A local Chinese take-out once refused to accept my half-dollar and one-dollar coins and even my two-dollar bill, without explanation. I chalk it all up to simple unfamiliarity with coins and currency, rarely encountered. I seriously doubt in a city, where those who cut and rob are only detained briefly, anyone would be arrested for a bag of Cheetos. In fact, any such police officer involved would probably be disciplined and laughed out of the stationhouse. (District attorneys here have publicly stated anyone arrested for marijuana, or other quality-of-life offenses, would not be prosecuted.)

[Conder101]

The fact that they may not bother to do anything to you, does not make it right or legal to just walk out with the merchandise.  It is still theft.  If a cop sees you doing 80 in a 55 zone but doesn't pull you over that doesn't make driving 25 mph over the speed limit OK.

[Henri Charriere]

An interesting related reference...

Carrier's Case (Anonymous vs. The Sheriff of London, The Case of Carrier Who Broke Bulk) (1473)  landmark English court case in the history of the definition of larceny.

 

[Just Bob]

This has nothing to do with the subject of the post, but did anyone notice that the above post in which Conder101 quoted pogohatesme attributed the quote to me? Curious. 

[Conder101]

I checked and it was because I clipped it from a quote of pogohatesme in a thread you posted.

[Henri Charriere]

(I am guilty of the same but have no plausible alibi.)

[Just Bob]

It was a quote of a quote. That makes sense. 

[kbbpll]

1 hour ago, Just Bob said:

And this is another problem with quoting. I can put words into your mouth.

 

[Henri Charriere]

4 hours ago, kbbpll said:

 

The other causative problems, speaking strictly for myself being, short- and intermittent-attention span and an imperceptible loss of memory. [I was misquoted as having "dropped out" of coin collecting when I merely "stopped out." Big difference.]

[VKurtB]

17 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

The other causative problems, speaking strictly for myself being, short- and intermittent-attention span and an imperceptible loss of memory. [I was misquoted as having "dropped out" of coin collecting when I merely "stopped out." Big difference.]

But you kept feeding the chickens, or at least the market for them?

[Just Bob]

8 hours ago, kbbpll said:

Yabba Dabba Doo!!!

If I weren't a nice guy, I could have some fun with this putting words in someone's mouth thing

[Henri Charriere]

3 hours ago, VKurtB said:

But you kept feeding the chickens, or at least the market for them?

[You've got to admit those three I posted on that thread were exceptional. Unfortunately, a double-thick planchet and PF-67, the first and second (rarest) years in the series, are a radical departure from my set. And the other was apparently already sold.]

[Henri Charriere]

10 hours ago, Just Bob said:

It was a quote of a quote. That makes sense. 

[Nearly 5,000 posts ought to count for something around here. Allow me to be the first to congratulate you!  I am looking forward to viewing many more.]

[Just Bob]

15 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

[Nearly 5,000 posts ought to count for something around here. Allow me to be the first to congratulate you!  I am looking forward to viewing many more.]

Thank you.