Lighting for ID'ing DD Kennedys? 0

[Thompson2]

I've started looking through this stack of 1964 Kennedy halves to ID any that are higher grades and whether there are are DDO / DDR / RPMs in the mix and I've run into some questions on the lighting.. 

I have a ring light that I can put directly around the lens to get very vertical light to the coin.  I also have a translucent plastic box that lets we get diffuse light from almost any angle.  Probably unsurprisingly, I've found that I get very different results depending upon where I locate the light.  On this first coin (1964 P), if the light is centered on the lens, it looks pretty normal.  If I move it so that it's more to the right of the coin, I can totally convince myself it's a DD.

So my question is this - is there a right / wrong angle to light a coin when trying to ID DD's?  I have about 100 coins to go through, and adjusting light individually for every one is going to be super time consuming, so I'd like to settle on 1 setup so I can go through them a bit more quickly.  

To help visualize what I'm seeing, this is the exact same coin with the light in the two positions.  

With the light centered around the lens

 

With the light off to the right (still diffused)

[Just Bob]

You can get the same effect as the second picture using a single light source and a loupe. That is why it is important to view coins from several angles. Shadows and glare can be deceiving.

I like the fact that you are experimenting with different lighting methods. It will definitely help you to determine whether you have something unusual or not. The ring light looks like it gives the most realistic view of the coins devices, as far as doubling, but probably not of the luster or surface marks. I would really like to see more comparison pictures. This thread and the one that Revenant started, showing his comparison pictures, are quite interesting to me.

[RWB]

As "Just Bob" suggested, use one ordinary light, and slowly rotate the coin. Any doubling - mechanical or die - will become apparent. Don't expect to find any doubled die coins - they are unusual and not nearly as common (or valuable) as social media hacks claim.

[Thompson2]

Yeah, the luster is hard to capture. It’s really nice on this one, but it either washes out or looks much duller than it really is. I need to see if I can get decent short videos to better capture it. The surface marks are also a bit of a pain to get to look the same as in hand. 
 

Any thoughts on this coin and the likelihood it’s a DD?  I’m guessing it’s super low.  On my phone, the thumbnail of the second shot just looks like highlights and shadows.  
 

It really doesn’t help that some of the attributed DDs on the Kennedys is super  subtle.  Like this one 

[Thompson2]

19 hours ago, RWB said:

As "Just Bob" suggested, use one ordinary light, and slowly rotate the coin. Any doubling - mechanical or die - will become apparent. Don't expect to find any doubled die coins - they are unusual and not nearly as common (or valuable) as social media hacks claim.

I’ll give that a shot. I just don’t have a loupe or magnifying glass on a stand.  May have to improvise a bit.  Lol

And I know that the odds of finding a DD are pretty slim, but I’d rather do the hunt and pull any out of the general population.  I’m pretty sure that several of the rolls that I’ve got were from the same delivery to the bank, so if there’s one they’re may be multiples (again, I’m aware it’s a super long shot, but it’s just my time I’m investing at this point). A question on my theory - are coins from the same die bagged together or does the output of multiple dies get mixed at the mint?

Edited June 8, 2020 by Thompson2

[RWB]

RE: "A question on my theory - are coins from the same die bagged together or does the output of multiple does get mixed at the mint?"

1964 halves struck by several presses were normally mixed before bagging. The contents of any specific bag would depend on the number of presses in operation and total good pieces manufactured. Back when silver dollars were flowing out of the Treasury, it was common to find coins from 2 or 3 die pairs in the same bag of 1,000 pieces.

[Just Bob]

55 minutes ago, Thompson2 said:

 

It really doesn’t help that some of the attributed DDs on the Kennedys is super  subtle.  Like this one 

 

This is very true. Some of them have miniscule doubling that shows up only on the reverse stars, and then only under strong magnification. Although they actually are doubled dies, they are so insignificant as to be worth almost no premium, except to a die-hard variety collector.

Look for splits on the serifs of the letters, like on the coin pictured below:

 

[Thompson2]

17 hours ago, Just Bob said:

This is very true. Some of them have miniscule doubling that shows up only on the reverse stars, and then only under strong magnification. Although they actually are doubled dies, they are so insignificant as to be worth almost no premium, except to a die-hard variety collector.

Look for splits on the serifs of the letters, like on the coin pictured below:

 

Good to kow the hard-to-spot ones are not much of a premium.  I won't feel too bad if I miss one (if it's even there).  The serifs look like a pretty easy tell.  I'll focus on those.  

I'll post results when I'm done (or maybe more questions, if they come up).

Thanks!

[Thompson2]

18 hours ago, RWB said:

RE: "A question on my theory - are coins from the same die bagged together or does the output of multiple does get mixed at the mint?"

1964 halves struck by several presses were normally mixed before bagging. The contents of any specific bag would depend on the number of presses in operation and total good pieces manufactured. Back when silver dollars were flowing out of the Treasury, it was common to find coins from 2 or 3 die pairs in the same bag of 1,000 pieces.

Makes sense.  Thanks for the insight on that.  

[VKurtB]

I once shot (photographically) a Kennedy (half dollar) in Dealey Plaza in Dallas. Then I took a second shot (of it) from the grassy knoll.

[Thompson2]

4 hours ago, VKurtB said:

I once shot (photographically) a Kennedy (half dollar) in Dealey Plaza in Dallas. Then I took a second shot (of it) from the grassy knoll.

Buh dum tsss.... 

Nice to see your lighter side!  I like it!

[Thompson2]

An update on this (and on the sorting thread too, I guess).  I was able to get my hands on a USB microscope and go through the stacks.  It made it pretty easy to see that, sadly but unsurprisingly, there was nothing of import.  I really only focused on mint marks and "We Trust" and didn't spend a bunch of time on each one.  I figured if it was that hard to see it wasn't worth anything extra.

I had some technical difficulties with the camera so i don't have any images to share.  If I sort that out, I'll post a couple here for reference.