A peek at a Saint-Gaudens Eagles book -
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I just bought Bower's book on Eagles. Looks like I'll also add yours to my library when it comes out. Are you thinking about one for the half Eagles and quarter Eagles as well?

 

Edited by Zebo
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14 hours ago, Zebo said:

I just bought Bower's book on Eagles. Looks like I'll also add yours to my library when it comes out. Are you thinking about one for the half Eagles and quarter Eagles as well?

 

Yes. There's a rough draft of a volume covering both small gold denominations. Mintages and varieties are too small to justify individual books. All of Pratt's work was confined to the half eagle so the quarter eagle was just a reduction from that. I also have to consider if there is enough new material to justify the book. Allan Schein's 2016 book, The $2½ & $5 Gold Indians of Bela Lyon Pratt, has to be considered in planning. I.e.: is the work justified if there is limited new material?

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53 minutes ago, Ross J said:

Roger, will this one also be sold through Heritage?  Does it cover die varieties like the DD book?  Sounds exciting!

Same concept and treatment, although there is much less background material than in the DE book and fewer varieties.

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5 hours ago, Ross J said:

 

Yes, I'm only aware of some re-punched mintmarks from Variety Plus and some odd mint mark placements.  Have you found any Doubled Dies?  

There are a couple of candidates, but not confirmed to my satisfaction. The total of Eagle dies used was a lot less than DE so there are likely fewer varieties.

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Roger, not that it matters, but are these books (including the Saints DE one) being produced to give away to some of HA's best clients ?  As I understand it, they give away most of their auction books for free to active bidders/buyers....you can buy a yearly sub for like $125 or so.....was wondering if they are treating these books (and the Saint DE) the same way, hence the pricey price for the book direct from HA.

That would explain why it also isn't on Amazon.

 

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[For years I have been hearing about the availability of Grant money that sits there for want of knowledge or interest.  At first blush it would seem to me that if anyone is deserving of such "free for the asking, no strings attached" funds to further one's scholarly research and publishing efforts, it would be you.]

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In reality there is no "grant" money for numismatic research or publication. Central states once had small grants of $5,000 but that stopped several years ago. The Newman Numismatic Education Society calls their small awards "grants" but there are multiple conditions that make it just another way to generate content at very low rates.

Historical academic grants and stipends have shown no interest in numismatics except in the limited archeological role. Likewise, with Smithsonian, NY Museums, British Museum, on and on.....

Not one "deep pocket" coin collector has ever, to my knowledge, offered to fund even the smallest research or publication project.

Heritage Auctions has clearly done the most to aid research, but I don't see any other company doing even the slightest thing unless it leads to immediate profit. Research is not "immediate profit"  -- even David Sarnoff understood that at RCA.

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PS: I now have doubts this book will ever be completed. Costs are too high and audience is too small.

There's also another 6 months of research before a final version comparable to the DE book could be ready. My time might be better used on other subjects.

Edited by RWB
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  • Member: Seasoned Veteran

That is truly unfortunate, Roger, but you're correct about there being no deep pockets to underwrite numismatic publishing and printing that isn't guaranteed to generate profits. We authors have to suck up the cost ourselves for the most part, unless one writes a book with mass appeal and the title "How to Get Rich Quick with Coins."

I, too, looked into the Newman Numismatic Portal's grants for research, but there is no support for the cost of printing hard copies. It's expected that the book will appear solely at the NNP, though it's possible for users to have the online books printed by a print-on-demand service. I briefly thought of that for my most recent book about Whitman coin folders and albums, but it didn't seem possible to guarantee a quality product. I expect to break even on the printed edition about 20 years after my death. :roflmao:

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41 minutes ago, DWLange said:

I expect to break even on the printed edition about 20 years after my death. :roflmao:

Yeah, that sounds about right.

It's troubling that so much potentially insightful information will be delayed or simply lost to current generations.:(

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1 hour ago, RWB said:

Yeah, that sounds about right.

It's troubling that so much potentially insightful information will be delayed or simply lost to current generations.:(

We have plenty of super-wealthy collectors who do nothing but give away large sums of money that mostly benefit fellow rich people.  What we need is a foundation that supports research like Roger's.

You wouldn't need a Harvard-sized endowment.  $10 MM would throw off about $400,000 a year which would be plenty (I think) to subsidize research articles and maybe small-print quantity books.  That's NOTHING to many of these people.

I'd assist in this endeavor.  We have some veterans with contacts....we reach out to the TPGs, auction houses, etc ..... it's WIN-WIN as it helps expand knowledge of our sector.

And anybody who donates or jump-starts this will have his or her name immortalized going forward in a more permanent and important manner than having their last name engraved on the label of a slab for a particular coin or collection.

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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DW & RW:  It seems our government has a lot of money to spend on grants.  Numismatic research should be an easy get considering this is one of dozens of grants passed out:

Sex, drugs, and… quails

The government spent at least $518,000 in federal grants to study how cocaine affects the sexual behavior of Japanese quails. Sounds pretty outlandish, but the researchers had their reasons. They were trying to look at how cocaine abuse affected risky sexual behaviors in humans, and the sex habits of quails are easy to measure in a lab setting. If you think this is bizarre, learn about these 10 secret U.S government operations—revealed.

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Government research grants are for things of wide potential or national benefit. Most of the things highlighted in media as frivolous turn out to be quite different than the headlines imply. Think back to the "rivolous" research into atmospheric lead from car exhaust and other sources, or long-term consequences of smoking, mercury traces in water supply, DDT's effects of birds' eggs, nanoparticle plastics in living cells, etc.

I've attempted to make the American history and economics argument regarding numismatic research for our own country, but have found no interest except in archeology - and that is scant. (U.S. coins are very rarely chronological determinants, and Mint/Treasury documents likewise.)

One would think that at least one wealthy coin or currency collector would fund research, or endow a research position at Smithsonian -- but nope.

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26 minutes ago, RWB said:

One would think that at least one wealthy coin or currency collector would fund research, or endow a research position at Smithsonian -- but nope.

I'll bet NOBODY has been approached.  Or thought of it.

That's the opening, Roger..............

 

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4 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I'll bet NOBODY has been approached.  Or thought of it.

That's the opening, Roger..............

 

I have approached multiple people. "I'll get back to you," is the standard non-answer.

Edited by RWB
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3 hours ago, RWB said:

I have approached multiple people. "I'll get back to you."

You'd need to reach out to the auction houses and/or the TPGs who know and work with the Heavy Hitters.

A $10 MM endowment....$400,000 a year for disbursement....subsidize research, have awards for HS kids and college kids for essays or contributions to coin collecting....maybe subsizide an exhibit at the Big 3 coin conventions.

1 wealthy person could take care of the whole thing.....if needed, just a few although the value of the naming rights then has to be apportioned.

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On 12/23/2020 at 8:26 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

1 wealthy person could take care of the whole thing

Yep. Had one who was going to endow a chair at SI's National Numismatic Collection. Got everything together, coordinated, budgets, etc. The person changed his mind - gave no other reason. No others, individual or corporate, followed-up beyond the "I'll get back to you." stage. At 2,387 years young, I'm too cynical to believe the moneyed care or that the oester bunny runs on batteries.

Edited by RWB
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On 12/23/2020 at 8:26 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

1 wealthy person could take care of the whole thing.....if needed, just a few although the value of the naming rights then has to be apportioned.

Flash  forward to the future...  three well-known multi-billionnaires launch themselves briefly into space to full-fill life-long dreams.  It is not clear to me what, if anything, they discovered beyond the fact that it could be done. I believe we have all been brought up to pursue frivolous pursuits at the expense of serious research.

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On 7/25/2021 at 5:20 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Flash  forward to the future...  three well-known multi-billionnaires launch themselves briefly into space to full-fill life-long dreams.  It is not clear to me what, if anything, they discovered beyond the fact that it could be done. I believe we have all been brought up to pursue frivolous pursuits at the expense of serious research.

And Bezos gave $100 MM each to a chef and some guy who whines on TV despite being a millionaire.

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It is their money. They decide personal "value" and future utility. After the little flight, Bezos said he recognized it was a frivolous 10-minutes. But the purpose of the flight and getting tourists into space, and the billions he had spent on the Blue Origin project, was to change a national an global perception - to look toward the greater goals of humanity, and possibly grow as a human species. They are the ones to convince that historical research is part of their personal agendas.

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@RWB Man was not created to live in an atmosphere devoid of life, gravity and air.  (If it were up to me, I would pull the rug out from under the Space Force and cut the space exploration budget, NASA, et al. to $0.00). 

 It is interesting but prohibitively expensive.

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A very short-sighted view, in my opinion. Humans are naturally driven by the unknown - knowable or unknowable. This is an essential separation between us and all other living things on this little planet. Elsewhere -- might be different. Here, everything in the connected "World of Quintus" is a product of this singular human trait.

:)

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I lack standing to be in your presence, much less argue with you so, with your indulgence, I shall ask you a single question: What have they found "out there," after spending millions, billions and now trillions of dollars, that has improved the quality of your life -- or anyone else's for that matter?

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On 7/25/2021 at 8:28 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

@RWB Man was not created to live in an atmosphere devoid of life, gravity and air.  (If it were up to me, I would pull the rug out from under the Space Force and cut the space exploration budget, NASA, et al. to $0.00).   It is interesting but prohibitively expensive.

I think that was an episode of "The Super Friends" in the 1970's. xD

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On 7/25/2021 at 10:01 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I lack standing to be in your presence, much less argue with you so, with your indulgence, I shall ask you a single question: What have they found "out there," after spending millions, billions and now trillions of dollars, that has improved the quality of your life -- or anyone else's for that matter?

The device you are using to communicate with us can trace its roots back to the space program. Microprocessors were invented pretty much to meet low heat logic circuit needs for spacecraft. 

Edited by VKurtB
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On 7/25/2021 at 11:23 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I think that was an episode of "The Super Friends" in the 1970's. xD

It was also an episode of in the old The Twilight Zone...  🐓

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