Ziemba727 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) Hi, I've collected coins off and on over the years but on a very casual level until recently. I started doing some research on a few coins I came across and one that I was particularly interested in had an NGC grading and a certification number of 0000000.000. I'm curious, what does it mean when that type of certification number is given out for a coin? I tried to research it online (as well as scanning the barcode below it but I kept getting an error response) but nothing came up. Is anyone familiar with this type of certification number? Thanks in advance, Ziemba Edited May 18, 2020 by Ziemba727 typo Link to post Share on other sites
Coinbuf Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Do you have a photo of the slab/label? Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemba727 Posted May 18, 2020 Author Share Posted May 18, 2020 I thought about that but wasn't sure if it was allowed since it's an item on a commercial site. Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemba727 Posted May 18, 2020 Author Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) I know it identifies the invoice number and then the line number on that invoice but still, I'm curious what no number would indicate. The scanned barcode does indeed reflect this type of coin and grade, but I'm confused by the number. Anyways, this is image is cropped down from a screen shot to remove any information regarding the seller. Moderators, if this is inappropriate, I apologize and please remove. Edited May 18, 2020 by Ziemba727 extra image Link to post Share on other sites
coinsandmedals Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) Hmmm...that is odd. If I had to guess, the seller might have edited the image of the slab to remove the cert number. Although it seems silly to go through the effort to do so if you plan to leave the barcode as is. If you check out the font used in the picture for that specific area, it does not match the numerical font used by NGC. Do the seller's photos of the coin match the images that come up with the cert verification? Edited May 18, 2020 by coinsandmedals Link to post Share on other sites
JTO Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 That is, without question, not a genuine number on the slab. The font is incorrect and the sharpness of focus is clearly sharper than the bar code below. This could be a seller protecting their NGC number on, say e-bay, prior to sale (but why not just white out the number and the bar code) or a counterfeit (albeit a poor one) or something in between. If you are being offered the coin for your purchase, get a real number first, unless you know the dealer and they have a valid return policy. With the certification number enter it and the grade into the NGC web site and you should see a photo of the coin in the slab (if is within the period of that label.) To enter the certification number to check its validity: 1 go to the NGC registry homepage and look at the upper banner. Click on "Resources" and a drop down menu will appear. 2 Click on Verify NGC Certification. This will open a new page with a space to enter BOTH the certification number and the numerical grade of the coin. I agree with coinsandmedals Hmmmm.... Looks like a scam to me. Just my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
Kirt Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) The bar code: https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/4429002-007/45/ Edited May 18, 2020 by Kirt Link to post Share on other sites
Greenstang Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) Would you please post a photo of the whole slab, just want to see something. If it is listed on eBay, include the 12 digit I D number. Edited May 18, 2020 by Greenstang Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemba727 Posted May 18, 2020 Author Share Posted May 18, 2020 I'll get an image in a little bit. It isn't on eBay and it is a seller I've purchased from before. I wrote them with the same question but hadn't heard back, hence my post here. When I scanned the barcode earlier, I got that same image, It's difficult to say how similar or different the coin for sale and the one on the NGC search are. It was difficult to tell when I looked. It's possible that the one for sale is not the one pictured. Link to post Share on other sites
Coinbuf Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Interesting, A couple of possibilities come to mind, the seller doesn't want the cert number to be "stolen" and used in the registry by someone that doesn't own the coin, the seller has more than one to sell and is using a stock image, or the sell didn't take a photo of the one for sale and is using this image in place of his own. As you've contacted the seller I would see what they have to say, but no matter the response I would be inclined to simply pass on it due to this red flag. Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemba727 Posted May 18, 2020 Author Share Posted May 18, 2020 I appreciate all the responses. Yeah, I think it was just a quick way to place an image in lieu of getting a photo of the real one. Other listings use an obvious prop photo and say you will get one in similar condition ...that’s why this one seemed so curious Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemba727 Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 Ok Here we go Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemba727 Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 I can zoom in more on a phone and yes, I can see the difference of pixelation in the certification number and the other text (grading and date). Probably pasted in the number afterwards to recycle an existing image. Link to post Share on other sites
Just Bob Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 I think the image of the coin is Photoshopped into the holder, also. Coinbuf 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemba727 Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Just Bob said: I think the image of the coin is Photoshopped into the holder, also. The light on the coin isn't consistent with the light on the slab, is it Link to post Share on other sites
Just Bob Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 No, it isn't. Also, the prongs do not cover the edge of the coin the way they would if the coin were actually mounted in the holder, and, unless my eyes are deceiving me, it is not the same coin as the one on that Kirt linked. The seller may have just been looking for an easy way to post a pic, or may have been intentionally deceptive. No way to know, I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites
Kirt Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Agreed - the coin in the photo you posted and the coin the barcode resolves to are different coins; the one in your image is actually a better coin. How much experience does this seller have with past coin sales? If they appear to be new, maybe (benefit of the doubt) they just don't know any better and the level of suspicion this sort of thing would raise. For other items it's completely acceptable to obscure serial numbers...although the photoshopped coin image is truly sketchy. Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemba727 Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 Their main area of business is in modern certified coins and precious metals. I had purchased a couple of small eagles from them in the past and they seemed totally fine and they checked out when I scanned the bar codes. I think they're probably just being overly casual about putting an image up and putting up a 0000000.000 certification number on the slab means, don't take it seriously.They've never seemed to carry much in the way of pre-33 coins. Ha, either way, I think I'll pass. I appreciate all the responses. Link to post Share on other sites
Coinbuf Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 16 hours ago, Just Bob said: I think the image of the coin is Photoshopped into the holder, also. Nailed it! Lazy or deceptive seller, we may never know which but a good decision to pass. Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemba727 Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) Receive a response. The reply in short was, that many of their images are stock images provided to us from the grading service that certified the coin, and because they are sample images they do not show accurate certification/serial numbers. Which means they came directly from NGC? Edited May 21, 2020 by Ziemba727 Link to post Share on other sites
Just Bob Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Ziemba727 said: Receive a response. The reply in short was, that many of their images are stock images provided to us from the grading service that certified the coin, and because they are sample images they do not show accurate certification/serial numbers. Which means they came directly from NGC? It means they "borrowed" the images from the NGC website - possibly the Registry, possibly elsewhere - and manipulated them to look however they wanted. The more I read about this seller, the more I distrust them. Edited May 21, 2020 by Just Bob Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemba727 Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 Hi Bob, I understand what you mean. Say I’m new to this forum but when I thought my question was moved to this forum, I thought a NGC admin or employee would chime in. Would I be better off with an email? You may be with NGC? ...I’m just going by the blue headers I see elsewhere. Thanks again Link to post Share on other sites
Just Bob Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 I am not with NGC, but if you want an answer from them, an email might not be a bad idea. Link to post Share on other sites
