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Did I accurately grade these Morgan’s?
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13 posts in this topic

Morning all,  been trying to find out if the rim ding ( above OF on reverse) would stop this coin from being MS? Sorry for all the random questions, like always, any info is always appreciated.

 

changed the topic instead of creating a new one, thanks for all yalls help!

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Edited by B.L.21
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WEAR keeps coins from being Mint State, rim nicks, bag marks, scratches etc may kep a coins from straight grading.  But by themselves, without wear, will not keep a coin from being MS.

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1 hour ago, B.L.21 said:

Morning all,  been trying to find out if the rim ding ( above OF on reverse) would stop this coin from being MS? Sorry for all the random questions, like always, any info is always appreciated.

My understanding is that rim dings attributable to circulation (i.e. accompanied by other evidence of circulation) will generally keep the coin from getting EF or better. However, pre-circulation rim dings do not; they are viewed like any other handling impairment. So when you look at this reverse, you see the breast feathers prominent and free of wear (nicely struck, too). I see bag marks, and I think that's how the rim ding would be classified. The MS grades depend in part upon where the handling impairments (a general term I use) occur, and the periphery of the reverse is a secondary focal area (not a good place to have dings, but better than having them in a prime focal area). Based on what I can detect in the pictures, my guess is MS-61 to 63, depending on how we classify a rim ding of that magnitude and whether the edge is included in secondary focal. I could be wrong, of course.

Absent that ding, I think it could grade higher.

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This is one of those things where grading is a "black box" to me, along with "scratch". Search Heritage archives for "morgan $1 unc rim damage". Some of them are yeah, that's rim damage. Others it's like "they detailed it for that??". So in your case it's hard to say what they will say.

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So i got these three in a group buy...am I correct in thinking there AU type coins with the wear on them? I paid just under $100 for the three...

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It's hard to tell from those pictures. Also, there's the thing about teaching a man to fish vs. giving him a fish. Here is a good site showing the high points (where you would expect wear and/or strike weakness) of the Morgan design. Examine yours, under mag if necessary, to see if the high points have wear (a simple magnifying glass can tell you a lot). What looks like wear could also be detail that did not strike up fully. Note that, while you would not grade most coins with magnification, you would use it to ascertain questions like this, seek evidence of cleaning, and/or investigate damages and varieties.

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2 hours ago, JKK said:

It's hard to tell from those pictures. Also, there's the thing about teaching a man to fish vs. giving him a fish. Here is a good site showing the high points (where you would expect wear and/or strike weakness) of the Morgan design. Examine yours, under mag if necessary, to see if the high points have wear (a simple magnifying glass can tell you a lot). What looks like wear could also be detail that did not strike up fully. Note that, while you would not grade most coins with magnification, you would use it to ascertain questions like this, seek evidence of cleaning, and/or investigate damages and varieties.

 Nice, thanks for that link...sadly from I see and compare to...I may have over paid a little... I’ll definitely use that link prior to buying another Morgan lol...as always, much appreciated for the input and assistance.

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4 minutes ago, B.L.21 said:

 Nice, thanks for that link...sadly from I see and compare to...I may have over paid a little... I’ll definitely use that link prior to buying another Morgan lol...as always, much appreciated for the input and assistance.

Here's some more information. Note the importance of determining whether a mark is in a prime focal area, secondary focal, or outside focal areas. If you overpaid, and I think you may have somewhat, consider the extra a form of tuition because it caused you to learn just how you should have evaluated them. You'll do better next time.

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On 5/11/2020 at 6:55 PM, JKK said:

Here's some more information. Note the importance of determining whether a mark is in a prime focal area, secondary focal, or outside focal areas. If you overpaid, and I think you may have somewhat, consider the extra a form of tuition because it caused you to learn just how you should have evaluated them. You'll do better next time.

  Thanks,  after looking...I put the 1921 at AU55 the 96 and 85 at AU 50 due the wear on the obverses, mainly the cheeks. I’ll use these guides in the future, much appreciated.

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49 minutes ago, B.L.21 said:

  Thanks,  after looking...I put the 1921 at AU55 the 96 and 85 at AU 50 due the wear on the obverses, mainly the cheeks. I’ll use these guides in the future, much appreciated.

Don't forget to differentiate between bag marks/dings and wear. A fully uncirculated coin can have terrible bag marks. One good cue to circulation is the fields: even a short period of circulation will litter them with thousands of microscratches, which even low mag can bring out. I rarely say this on here, but I think you might well be undergrading based upon how you categorize the contact marks. I'd take very good looks at the fields and see if they have the motley microscratch collection of circulated coins.

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On 5/13/2020 at 12:54 PM, JKK said:

Don't forget to differentiate between bag marks/dings and wear. A fully uncirculated coin can have terrible bag marks. One good cue to circulation is the fields: even a short period of circulation will litter them with thousands of microscratches, which even low mag can bring out. I rarely say this on here, but I think you might well be undergrading based upon how you categorize the contact marks. I'd take very good looks at the fields and see if they have the motley microscratch collection of circulated coins.

I looked and moved them around to see the fields...I don’t see those micro scratches. I have MS 62 NGC certified Morgan’s I’ve been comparing them to...they appear nicer so I’ll assume they’re 62’s. 
 

Also, JKK...you’re awesome...I’ve got both those websites saved and printed off the first one about grading...thank you so much!

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Thanks and you're welcome. If you really want to learn to crush grading, there's one thing you can do now and one that will take years but pay huge dividends. The ANA's Grading Guide goes into great detail about what is required for each grade on each US coin. I keep it within arm's reach in my office. The Photograde book is also nice because color is fun. If you studied the Red Book plus those two, you would have most of the information readily available to me.

Longer term, what I do is subscribe to the print version of Coin World. I don't read most of the articles; I don't give two *spoons* about the newest bullion coin, or this or that convention, or the new Federal Supermax Prison Quarter designs, or theme collecting like fish or echidnas or slugs or dandelions or jai-alai stars on coins. What I do is look at the section called "First Grade," which every month gives a detailed grading discussion of a given issue and grade range. For example, in the May 2020 issue, the subject is Draped Bust half cents from AG-3 to MS-63. Color photos and discussion of each grade assigned offer high-level analyses with great context.

I save the magazines. Every few months (I've been known to make it more than a few), I take down my magazines and destroy them. Ripping straight through the spine, I tear out first the First Grade sections, then the US price guide sections. I separate all the pages, then place a specified post-it on the First Grades based on issue and range. So for the May issue's section, it'll get the "oddball" category's darker pink and the label: Draped Bust 1/2c 3-63. I'll three-hole it (sometimes need hole reinforcers) and put it in a binder with the rest of my half cent First Grades. Some twelve years on, this means I have a pretty good reference library to help me with grading. It really wasn't much work, just have to separate the pages without trashing them.  Eventually they start repeating, as you'd expect after 150+ issues, but that's all right. What's the worst tragedy I could have? Two different takes on grading circulated wheaties? I reckon I can survive that.

I then similarly remove and separate the price guide, marking it by month/year, and parking it in the price guide binder. If I want to see some issue's price history (or at least about 30-40% inflated price history, ahem), I have the data on hand to chart it out all the way back to when I began doing this.

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