NGC to Attribute Emergency Production 2020 Bullion Silver Eagles from the Philadelphia Mint 1 1

[Matt G]

The numismatic rarity is the result of an emergency shift in US Mint production.  Read More

 

[GoldFinger1969]

They're honestly going to say Emergency Production on the label ?

What for ?  

 

[kbbpll]

2 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

What for ?

History. 100 years from now these will be like shipwreck coins.

[Voltyris]

Why not Corona Epidemic Edition? or COVID-19? Whatever sounds cooler. 

Emergency production to satisfy the hunger for silver : )

Edited May 6, 2020 by Voltyris

[World Colonial]

There is no rarity.  240,000 isn't remotely rare.

[7.jaguars]

And no ability to spot this coin based on the coin itself. Shame on the profiteers, and moreso on the buyers of such schlock.

[kbbpll]

On 5/6/2020 at 9:13 AM, World Colonial said:

There is no rarity.  240,000 isn't remotely rare.

I guess it depends on how many monster boxes are still unsealed and how many get submitted. People seem to like all the signature slabs and such, so why not this I guess.

[World Colonial]

2 hours ago, kbbpll said:

I guess it depends on how many monster boxes are still unsealed and how many get submitted. People seem to like all the signature slabs and such, so why not this I guess.

I did only open the link but only browsed through the article.

My broader claim is that there is no actual rarity in the entire ASE series, it's a complete exaggeration. There is limited "grade" rarity" where the counts are (somewhat) low as a 70, but that's a contrivance since at least with other coinage, the coin is actually legitimately scarce in "high" quality.  This doesn't exist with any ASE.

[Abuelo's Collection]

@World Colonial is absolutely right. If we call rarities modern  coins that are minted at the 240,000 level, what are coins of which there are 5 specimens known?

Edited May 9, 2020 by Abuelo's Collection

[James P. ONeill Jr.]

It seems to me that if they only grade monster boxes owned by dealers NGC is ignoring the individual collector who may have such a coin.   

[Carny]

Very disappointed at this latest scam by NGC to fill their pockets with grading fees on coins that will never be in my collection but only available to the rich and famous.  And to make it sound like these are rare coins is simply not true.  Are all of the (p) monster boxes going to be graded?  Anyone who thinks that they will get anywhere near the price in the future for these EMERGENCY slabbed coins is in it for the piece of paper on the slab only.  Labels don’t value coins however NGC uses them so that they can make another slot in the registry.  SHAME

[World Colonial]

With apparently up to 240,000 eligible for grading, practically any collector will be able to afford to buy it.

I also doubt that more than a very low proportion of the more affluent collector base spends any noticeable amounts or proportion of their collecting budget on NCLT.  This is an inference but there is more reason to believe that only those who predominantly buy NCLT do so. 

The rest of the buyers are predominantly low to moderate budget or it is not their primary collecting interest.

[Conder101]

On 5/10/2020 at 8:45 PM, James P. ONeill Jr. said:

It seems to me that if they only grade monster boxes owned by dealers NGC is ignoring the individual collector who may have such a coin

No, if a collector submits an unopened monster box with the correct strapping and asks them to certify them as such they will do it.  Of course most collectors don't have unopened monster boxes, and the unopened box is the only way to tell where they came from.

[Stephen83333]

On 5/9/2020 at 2:55 PM, World Colonial said:

I did only open the link but only browsed through the article.

My broader claim is that there is no actual rarity in the entire ASE series, it's a complete exaggeration. There is limited "grade" rarity" where the counts are (somewhat) low as a 70, but that's a contrivance since at least with other coinage, the coin is actually legitimately scarce in "high" quality.  This doesn't exist with any ASE.

You are a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person. You are like the Trumptards who think they know more about everything (like their master). If their is no rarity of ANY ASE coin as you claim, go build a complete set or two of ASE's in high quality MS70 and then a complete set of high quality PF70's and we will wait for your results. By the way you other minions need to educate yourselves about who is grading/selling what.........PCGS is also grading these "emergency" ASE's under their "Premier" label and they are selling for around $299, so quit your whining about NGC grading these coins. What a bunch of whiners.

Not really interested in an "emergency" ASE coin myself, but to slam the whole concept that others may like is absurd.

[World Colonial]

2 minutes ago, Stephen83333 said:

You are a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person. You are like the Trumptards who think they know more about everything (like their master). If their is no rarity of ANY ASE coin as you claim, go build a complete set or two of ASE's in high quality MS70 and then a complete set of high quality PF70's and we will wait for your results. By the way you other minions need to educate yourselves about who is grading/selling what.........PCGS is also grading these "emergency" ASE's under their "Premier" label and they are selling for around $299, so quit your whining about NGC grading these coins. What a bunch of whiners.

Not really interested in an "emergency" ASE coin myself, but to slam the whole concept that others may like is absurd.

You are not the first person to dislike my posts.  MS-70 is rare?  So are over 99% of all coins ever made in that grade, especially since most coins don't even exist in that grade.  It's a marketing gimmick and nothing else.

[Stephen83333]

On 5/9/2020 at 4:41 PM, Abuelo's Collection said:

@World Colonial is absolutely right. If we call rarities modern  coins that are minted at the 240,000 level, what are coins of which there are 5 specimens known?

So using your logic only coins with five specimens qualify as rarities? Other collectors may enjoy coins as being rather rare at higher numbers than five. Geez

[Stephen83333]

8 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

You are not the first person to dislike my posts.  MS-70 is rare?  So are over 99% of all coins ever made in that grade, especially since most coins don't even exist in that grade.  It's a marketing gimmick and nothing else.

Okay, fair enough.

Take care

[Abuelo's Collection]

On 5/27/2020 at 9:46 PM, Stephen83333 said:

So using your logic only coins with five specimens qualify as rarities? Other collectors may enjoy coins as being rather rare at higher numbers than five. Geez

Certainly not. But I do not see a coin with thousands of specimens as rarities. 

Cheers!

[caldonia]

it will be worth no more than the spot value once economy completely crashes. lab;es will mean nothing nor grade

[MarkFeld]

On 5/27/2020 at 8:46 PM, Stephen83333 said:

So using your logic only coins with five specimens qualify as rarities? Other collectors may enjoy coins as being rather rare at higher numbers than five. Geez

Can a coin with a population of more than five (still) accurately be described as rare? Of course. A coin which is one of two hundred forty thousand? Of course not. 

[Conder101]

On 5/27/2020 at 9:37 PM, Stephen83333 said:

If their is no rarity of ANY ASE coin as you claim, go build a complete set or two of ASE's in high quality MS70 and then a complete set of high quality PF70's and we will wait for your results.

He did concede the point about grade rarities, but other than those he is right, there are no great rarities in the ASE series.  Best it has are the 1995-W proof and the 2019 (S or W can't remember which) reverse proof.  In the bullion coins the best you get is the 1996 with a mintage of over 3.5 million.  The only "rarity" that wasn't specifically made to be a collector rarity is the 2008 rev of 2007 Burnished, and it was still a coin specifically made for collectors, it just happened to be a variety as well.

[World Colonial]

26 minutes ago, Conder101 said:

He did concede the point about grade rarities, but other than those he is right, there are no great rarities in the ASE series.  Best it has are the 1995-W proof and the 2019 (S or W can't remember which) reverse proof.  In the bullion coins the best you get is the 1996 with a mintage of over 3.5 million.  The only "rarity" that wasn't specifically made to be a collector rarity is the 2008 rev of 2007 Burnished, and it was still a coin specifically made for collectors, it just happened to be a variety as well.

Yes I did but I just looked at the TPG data, again.  There is some "rarity" as a 70 for a few of the non-proof dates, if limited to the PCGS counts for those who consider them to be stricter.  (One date has 17, another 22 and a few more below 100.)  I presume this is the position of at least a minority who collect the series since the counts are noticeably lower.

Otherwise, there is no rarity even in this grade unless the concept is now extended to labels.  No date has less than several hundred as a 70 (lowest count is somewhat below 400).  The 1995-W, the "key" to the series, currently has 398 at PCGS and 635 at NGC.  What kind of rarity is that?  Maybe it's "gradeflation" (as the counts have exploded from years ago) but it's irrelevant from a collecting aspect since there is no practical difference between this grade and even several grades lower. 

It would probably take awhile to build a complete 70 set exclusively in PCGS holders, unless the counts increase at least somewhat.  Otherwise, every single one of these coins can almost certainly be bought in this grade in one of the two holders in a single day, now and all the time.

[Conder101]

On 6/2/2020 at 5:11 PM, World Colonial said:

No date has less than several hundred as a 70 (lowest count is somewhat below 400).  The 1995-W, the "key" to the series, currently has 398 at PCGS and 635 at NGC.  What kind of rarity is that?

Well when you consider that in the US there are probably between 50 and 100 thousand people trying to put the set together, 400 coin is at least kind of rare because at any one time a large percentage of them are tied up in collections and not on the market.  But even with those pops there are nowhere near enough of them available to begin to cover collector demand.  Even so it is still just a grade rarity and it is only "rare" if you insist that you HAVE to have it in 70.  (a grade which if they were resubmitted many probably wouldn't get a second time around.

[World Colonial]

1 hour ago, Conder101 said:

Well when you consider that in the US there are probably between 50 and 100 thousand people trying to put the set together, 400 coin is at least kind of rare because at any one time a large percentage of them are tied up in collections and not on the market.  But even with those pops there are nowhere near enough of them available to begin to cover collector demand.  Even so it is still just a grade rarity and it is only "rare" if you insist that you HAVE to have it in 70.  (a grade which if they were resubmitted many probably wouldn't get a second time around.

Here is what I can tell you from looking at most US coinage, a wide variety of world coinage and the most widely collected ancients.

I haven't checked ASE regularly but there is no reason to believe that the frequency it comes up for sale is any less than other comparably scarce (US) coins, at comparable prices.  There is every reason to believe it is a lot more frequent. 

Why?  Because a much larger percentage of the "collector" base isn't actually primarily interested in buying it as a collectible but predominantly for financial reasons. Do a higher proportion find it so compelling while collectors of US classics (or other coinage) with the same approximate availability (in total, not some contrived rarity) find what they collect a lot less interesting?

I know that any US classic with about 400 can be bought (practically) any time due to the price, probably in multiple within a very short period of time.  On one occasion, I checked Morgan dollar proofs where the mintages usually range from 600 to 800 with the survivors presumably somewhat more than 400.  Every single one had in the vicinity of 10 sales just on Heritage in the prior year. 

To your point that there isn't enough supply for every buyer who wants it, this is equally true for any other (US) coin with the same generic availability,  The coins still aren't hard to buy, for those who have the money and are willing to spend it.  Every one else either can't or won't because they can't afford it or overwhelmingly prefer to spend their money elsewhere.

[Mc10139]

Definitely command a huge premium, and 1 of 244 is a very limited run rarity. 1/1000th of the total pop. Add mercanti sig and FDI, this will surpass the 95w and 2015p. They sold out in a day and were only offered through 1 company to their exclusive clients. What say you all?

[Mc10139]

And just to clarify, the monster box #400000, was purchased for 13k, sold to modern coin mart for well over 100k. Of the box only 244 graded 70, the rest 69 or less. Under this logic, the last year of the silver eagle, from this box, in an MS70 has a pop of 244. Again, lowest pop of any ASE and if anyone wants to complete a set registry.... well they most likely wont be able to. I have a few I was able to get early under an arrangement. 

[World Colonial]

3 hours ago, Mc10139 said:

Definitely command a huge premium, and 1 of 244 is a very limited run rarity. 1/1000th of the total pop. Add mercanti sig and FDI, this will surpass the 95w and 2015p. They sold out in a day and were only offered through 1 company to their exclusive clients. What say you all?

 

It's a gimmick.  The label is a gimmick and so is attributing a mintmark where it isn't actually on the coin.  It's all marketing driven by the TPGs to generate grading fees and nothing else.  It also has nothing to do with actual coin collecting either, since the signature (from someone I wouldn't even describe as a minor celebrity) and label on the holder are a lot more important than the coin in it.

I don't know what percentage of the buyer base (many of whom I wouldn't even describe as primarily collectors if at all) buys these things but it's a distinct minority.  Comparing the "rarity" to the 95-W isn't valid either.  It's the equivalent of comparing the scarcity of a variety to a date generically.

244 for a combination of label and grade rarity isn't actually rare, even with such a narrow definition.  Using an average holding period of five years, it will come up for sale about once per week.  That's not even close to being hard to buy.

The size of the ASE collector base is irrelevant to this example, since most who collect the series are buying it as a low premium bullion substitute.  Most of these people are also either low budget collectors or it's a sideline collection, not their primary interest.

The problem with this type of inference is that these gimmicks aren't interesting enough to enough people at any meaningful price, unless they are making money or at least not losing it.  It's a limitation for NCLT generally since a much higher proportion are predominantly financially motivated. 

[CoinMole]

I am new to coin collecting world and I have a question. What is better to buy "FDOI" or "Early Release" issues, why?

[MarkFeld]

3 hours ago, CoinMole said:

I am new to coin collecting world and I have a question. What is better to buy "FDOI" or "Early Release" issues, why?

If you’re new to collecting, it would be better not to buy either. At least until you have a clear understanding of the market for them (as well as for examples without special labels) AND the resale market for such items.

[TastySnail]

Early release in is an alternative of pcgs first strike. Most people would prefer flag label "first strike" ASE for easy identification. As for FDOI , it is more of dealer's exclusive if I am not mistaken.