Morgan Dollars - Toned Vs Untoned (PL/DMPL)
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20 posts in this topic

Hello Everyone!

A dominant toning covering the devices and fields seems to defeat the desired characteristics of frosty devices and mirror-like fields in PL/DMPL Morgans. 

The devices are no longer frosty, and the fields seem to be no longer mirror-like fields due to the toning (but they are, upon inspection/grading).

The PL/DMPL coin seems to be a toned coin for the most part, with the special elements of PL/DMPL fading away.  

What's your opinion about the matter? Can you share your experience of owning toned PL/DMPL Morgans?

I am referring to this type of toned PL/DMPL Morgans: 

 

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Edited by Voltyris
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While there are those that love toned coins, I am not a fan of DMPL coins of that type. If I have a DMPL coin, I want to see it shine!

Nothing like a coin that looks like it did the day it came off the press over 100 years ago!

There are some very attractive toned coins, but the splotchy toning of the ones pictured are not attractive to me.

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I'm not an expert on PL/DMPL, but I agree with your observations.

Question:  When the TPGs give out the PL/DMPL designation, they are comparing it to the coins of that era, right ?  Because I just bought a Proof Modern coin and it's super-reflective and I've never seen a Morgan anywhere near as reflective as that.  In fact, come to think of it, I'm surprised the DMPL or DM designation isn't on modern coins because they are so reflective and black.  Mine's a PF70, bought it at FUN.

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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12 hours ago, MorganMan said:

While there are those that love toned coins, I am not a fan of DMPL coins of that type. If I have a DMPL coin, I want to see it shine!

Nothing like a coin that looks like it did the day it came off the press over 100 years ago!

There are some very attractive toned coins, but the splotchy toning of the ones pictured are not attractive to me.

Thank you for your input!

Yes, heavily toned PL/DMPL coins seem to lose the interesting shine and frost one looks for in a PL/DMPL coin.

Of course yes, toned or untoned, all a matter of preference. Sometimes toning adds to the classic element of a coin pressed over a 100 years ago. 

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12 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I'm not an expert on PL/DMPL, but I agree with your observations.

Question:  When the TPGs give out the PL/DMPL designation, they are comparing it to the coins of that era, right ?  Because I just bought a Proof Modern coin and it's super-reflective and I've never seen a Morgan anywhere near as reflective as that.  In fact, come to think of it, I'm surprised the DMPL or DM designation isn't on modern coins because they are so reflective and black.  Mine's a PF70, bought it at FUN.

Well, to my knowledge: 

They give the PL/DMPL designation to Morgans, because the coins weren't intended to come out this way. They were minting regular business strikes. Basically, it was fresh dies, or recently cleaned ones, etc.. So they created some amazing looking Morgans. TPGs gave them PL/DMPL designation as a nod to their beauty, and to differentiate them from Proofs, which were minted to come out as Proofs.

In Modern Coins, the technology of minting coins is superior to the old days. They mint what they want. Regular, Proof, Cameo, Reverse Proof, etc.. No room for a coin coming out as too cool or good looking than it's sibling (or perhaps some do and the mint employees get them!).

So now in Modern, no room for an in-between. The PL/DMPL that wasn't intended, and created the "more cool looking morgans".

Modern is why Proof-like when we can mint you Proof straight away, and in abudance : )

Edited by Voltyris
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2 hours ago, Just Bob said:

There are modern coins that have received the "prooflike" designation:

(not my coin)

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Well Well, one did not know that. Thank you for sharing! 

Is this a rare occurrence, or in huge numbers like the Morgans?

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5 hours ago, rrantique said:

Here is one with color.

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I bet you really paid for that one ha : ) .. Brilliant, hopefully you can get some High quality pictures for it one day. Perhaps during a resubmit!

Well, its good you own one from ANACS. What's your opinion on ANACS coins with PL/DMPL or Cameo PL? The market seems to pay less for them, at least from what I've seen over several occasions. 

Thanks a lot for sharing!

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15 hours ago, kbbpll said:

https://www.ngccoin.com/census/united-states/dimes/32/

Looks like they designated PL for Roosevelt dimes in many years and mints, up to 2019-D. I didn't realize it either.

Interesting information. Thank you for pointing it out. One must do more research before one opens his mouth : ) .. Well, we must find out what it is all about. 

It's interesting that NGC only graded one as a MS-70, a 2005 release. A bit shocking. In the very first year, 1946, NGC has one as a MS-69. Roosevelt Dimes (1946-Now).

Pulled one over from eBay. Never came across FT (Finest Grade) on a holder before, so this is new as well. 

 

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Edited by Voltyris
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I bet you really paid for that one ha : ) .. Brilliant, hopefully you can get some High quality pictures for it one day. Perhaps during a resubmit!

Well, its good you own one from ANACS. What's your opinion on ANACS coins with PL/DMPL or Cameo PL? The market seems to pay less for them, at least from what I've seen over several occasions.

Thanks for the kind words Voltyris. I think the old saying "Buy the coin and not the holder" still rings true today. I do like the old ANACS holders and have several. PL/DMPL coins do seem a little tougher to capture color and or black and white backgrounds/mirrors.

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10 hours ago, Voltyris said:

Never came across FT (Finest Grade) on a holder before

Full Torch, like the FB (Full Bands) and FS (Full Steps) strike designations.

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11 hours ago, rrantique said:

 

Thanks for the kind words Voltyris. I think the old saying "Buy the coin and not the holder" still rings true today. I do like the old ANACS holders and have several. PL/DMPL coins do seem a little tougher to capture color and or black and white backgrounds/mirrors.

I share the same sentiments. I like the old ANACS holder very much, and I also own a lot of them (due to the interesting coins inside). The new holders, not very much. I also like a lot of toned coins in the Morgan series that happen to be in old ANACS holders.

Yes, of course, very tough to photograph due to the mirror fields.

You seem to own several PL/DMPL Morgans, is this your niche within the series, or part of a larger Morgan Dollars collection? 

Edited by Voltyris
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Dulling or diminution of proof-like appearance through toning is a real, and measurable effect. The primary aspects to consider are the physical shape(s) of the original PL surface and its effect on light reflection, and the alteration in shape(s) produced when a new chemical species is introduced - usually a sulfide or chloride mixed with a little cupric oxide.

There's no room for a lengthy explanation and it would not be of much use anyway.

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16 hours ago, Voltyris said:

I share the same sentiments. I like the old ANACS holder very much, and I also own a lot of them (due to the interesting coins inside). The new holders, not very much. I also like a lot of toned coins in the Morgan series that happen to be in old ANACS holders.

Yes, of course, very tough to photograph due to the mirror fields.

You seem to own several PL/DMPL Morgans, is this your niche within the series, or part of a larger Morgan Dollars collection? 

You are correct I indeed like PL/DMPL coins and the Morgan series is a large part of my collection..

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