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1990 P Washington 25c possible die break?
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20 posts in this topic

I have this 1990 P Washington quarter and on the reverse there is a line coming up from the wing from the bottom of the I to the top of the T in UNITED. The strange thing is is it goes behind the T. I turned all the other lights out except my phone light and tried to find a shadow and it appears to be raised. I was wondering if it’s a die crack or something else. If it is a die crack wouldn’t it go over the T instead of behind it? Any help is much appreciated as always. 

BC6B97C1-EB15-41DA-BF3F-BE3485842F9D.jpeg

7121A8D2-7FC2-4AB7-9B15-659D1E9C72B4.jpeg

C66F2A2B-A9DB-45C4-9064-0B3D0A4EFF3E.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, MattMatt88 said:

I have this 1990 P Washington quarter and on the reverse there is a line coming up from the wing from the bottom of the I to the top of the T in UNITED. The strange thing is is it goes behind the T. I turned all the other lights out except my phone light and tried to find a shadow and it appears to be raised. I was wondering if it’s a die crack or something else. If it is a die crack wouldn’t it go over the T instead of behind it? Any help is much appreciated as always. 

BC6B97C1-EB15-41DA-BF3F-BE3485842F9D.jpeg

7121A8D2-7FC2-4AB7-9B15-659D1E9C72B4.jpeg

C66F2A2B-A9DB-45C4-9064-0B3D0A4EFF3E.jpeg

Oh I forgot to thank @Just Bob for that shadow trick. It’s been very helpful. 

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That's a weird one. I can see the shadow you describe, but it looks like it's interacting with the bottom of the I and the right-hand side of the T. I know you're working with a phone and likely that's the best picture you can get, but it would be really helpful to have a crystal clear picture of that area of the coin.

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15 hours ago, Kirt said:

That's a weird one. I can see the shadow you describe, but it looks like it's interacting with the bottom of the I and the right-hand side of the T. I know you're working with a phone and likely that's the best picture you can get, but it would be really helpful to have a crystal clear picture of that area of the coin.

Sorry it took so long to reply @Kirt but this is the clearest picture I could get. 

A4710C8E-BF1B-43B4-929F-BDA641457629.jpeg

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Thanks for giving it the old college try...that's better, but still not clear enough to be absolutely deterministic.

Good news: I think there's a very strong probability that's a die crack. I see misshapen metal at the left of the eagle's wing which connects to the bottom of the "I" then the line extending from the other side of the "I" across the "T" to the "E". Both the "T" & "E"  have some sort of distortion in the metal near where the line intersects. There is not a consistent line across the "T" which would be expected if it were a scratch. Putting all that together, it's probably a die crack.

Bad news: Even though it's probably an error, it's still worth a quarter. Minor errors like this just don't add to the value of coins, particularly circulated ones.

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8 hours ago, MattMatt88 said:

Sorry it took so long to reply @Kirt but this is the clearest picture I could get. 

A4710C8E-BF1B-43B4-929F-BDA641457629.jpeg

You can pick up a macro lens that attaches to your iPhone with a clip for pretty cheap. It comes in very handy and takes pics 8X power in most cases along with using your phones zoom. Prices generally start around $15 and go up from there. I spent about $20 for mine.

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9 hours ago, Kirt said:

Thanks for giving it the old college try...that's better, but still not clear enough to be absolutely deterministic.

Good news: I think there's a very strong probability that's a die crack. I see misshapen metal at the left of the eagle's wing which connects to the bottom of the "I" then the line extending from the other side of the "I" across the "T" to the "E". Both the "T" & "E"  have some sort of distortion in the metal near where the line intersects. There is not a consistent line across the "T" which would be expected if it were a scratch. Putting all that together, it's probably a die crack.

Bad news: Even though it's probably an error, it's still worth a quarter. Minor errors like this just don't add to the value of coins, particularly circulated ones.

Yeah I didn’t think it would add value to it. I just like to find coins that are almost perfect and coins that are old and beat up or have little imperfections like that quarter. My son and I just finished the fifty state quarter booklet. He’s about to be three so he just likes putting the quarters in the slots haha. We did find two Delaware spitting horses though so he thought that was pretty cool. I’m not trying to get rich I just enjoy looking at coins haha. I appreciate all the help. 

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On 2/22/2020 at 8:34 AM, Terence:) said:

You can pick up a macro lens that attaches to your iPhone with a clip for pretty cheap. It comes in very handy and takes pics 8X power in most cases along with using your phones zoom. Prices generally start around $15 and go up from there. I spent about $20 for mine.

or you can find how to put your phone in manual and adjust that way not using auto focus 

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As for the coin - it looks like a die crack but does look odd maybe a die scratch is more the term

 

Edited by jgrinz
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There it is! Awesome pics, absolutely confirmed die crack as you can now see the metal on top of the T as well. Great pic and great macro lens - which one was it?

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On 3/2/2020 at 12:08 AM, Kirt said:

There it is! Awesome pics, absolutely confirmed die crack as you can now see the metal on top of the T as well. Great pic and great macro lens - which one was it?

I think they’re just some cheap ones my mom picked up at the dollar store. 

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4 hours ago, VKurtB said:

I'd even go so far as to label this a die gouge.

So a gouge is from polishing the die and a crack is an old wore out die?

Edited by MattMatt88
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On 3/3/2020 at 1:44 PM, MattMatt88 said:

So a gouge is from polishing the die and a crack is an old wore out die?

That is my understanding as well; however, others may be able to correct both of us. 

The only quibble is with "old wore out die" - technically, while an old die is more likely to fracture, it is possible for a die to fracture early in its life or -- theoretically -- when being hubbed. I see no shoulders on your coin, which would indicate the die was not particularly worn and probably not at the end of its life when your coin was struck. Looks like it was either a thin gouge as @asdfgh and @VKurtB are advocating, or a crack early in the die's life as @Greenstang and I are saying.

Either way, great pics and a coin I'd keep, even if it doesn't have any particular value.

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A gouge occurs when something impacts the die during normal operations (such as striking coins or between runs when cleaning dies or the press). A die crack or break is the beginning of the end of a die's integrity. A gouge can run for a VERY long time, since the structural integrity of the die is not impaired. What can be the cause of a gouge? A screwdriver, a punch, a piece of random metal on a rag, lots of things. This coin looks like a gouge, not a break.

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1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

...A die crack or break is the beginning of the end of a die's integrity...

(thumbsu Appreciate your clarification as I was talking about when it *could* happen, not about how much life the die had left in it once it did happen. I should have phrased it better - I don't see much wear on the die, so if it is a crack it would be an unusual occurrence on a somewhat newer die.

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