Estate coin find
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Good morning, I have an estate collection that I am going through and came across three gold coins that I may send for grading. The gold eagles look good but the token is giving me trouble finding the exact one pictured here.  Thoughts on grade-ability of the Liberty Heads would be appreciated and has anyone seen this particular 1850 token before?  Thanks  

1885 - Liberty Head $10 GE

1905 - Liberty Head $10 GE

1850 Eureka Calf. Token (?)

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17 minutes ago, Kirt said:

For the token, have you looked through the territorial gold coin resources (https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/territorials-pscid-79)? That would be where I would start.

I will search that link, Thanks. I started my search in California & State Fractional Gold Tokens here on NGC but couldn't find this particular one.

What's you thoughts about getting the Liberty Heads graded?

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27 minutes ago, TmgT said:

I will search that link, Thanks. I started my search in California & State Fractional Gold Tokens here on NGC but couldn't find this particular one.

What's you thoughts about getting the Liberty Heads graded?

I don't know enough about the Liberty Heads. There are a lot of US gold counterfeits so grading authentic coins is a good idea if you plan to resell at any point. Others will weigh in on the likely authenticity as you've got interesting stuff and they'll know better what you have - I don't see any obvious markers for counterfeit. However, I can tell only basic counterfeits because they're pretty obvious but the good ones will absolutely fool me. Wait for them to tell you it's likely authentic before committing to send those in.

As to the token, I pointed you at the link in hopes you'd find a match but...I was afraid you'd say that. There is something off about that one. I can't tell you what it is but it just doesn't look right to me.

Edited by Kirt

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This estate find that I got has a lot of great stuff and these coins where in very old  paper type flips with the purchase price on them. Based on that these Liberty heads go back to a purchase time in the 40's maybe. As for the token .... I can find some very similar Eureka gold coins but not with the 'bear' on the reverse. All the 1850's I found have the lettering 'one' 

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Quote

 

Taken from a blog.  Reseaqrch California Fractional Gold.

 

Identifying Fake California Gold

The photo above features a genuine California Fractional Gold piece with a US currency denomination on the reverse and a fake piece, or replica, on the right with a bear symbol, which is not from the 19th century, not gold and most assuredly not from California. It was listed in a Proxibid auction has "1855 Cal. Gold Token."

At best, this should have been listed as a "plated gold or brass replica."

If you spot a bear on the reverse, or any other symbol or text without an indication of denomination, such as "dollar," "dol." or even "d," my advice is not to bid more than $1. My local coin dealer sells them for that much, and he has a box of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Alex in PA. said:

Taken from a blog.  Reseaqrch California Fractional Gold.

 

Identifying Fake California Gold

The photo above features a genuine California Fractional Gold piece with a US currency denomination on the reverse and a fake piece, or replica, on the right with a bear symbol, which is not from the 19th century, not gold and most assuredly not from California. It was listed in a Proxibid auction has "1855 Cal. Gold Token."

At best, this should have been listed as a "plated gold or brass replica."

If you spot a bear on the reverse, or any other symbol or text without an indication of denomination, such as "dollar," "dol." or even "d," my advice is not to bid more than $1. My local coin dealer sells them for that much, and he has a box of them.

 

This exact quote stuck in my head from a long time ago - something about the ones with bears being fake/suspicious. I have no idea whether any of this is true.

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3 minutes ago, kbbpll said:

This exact quote stuck in my head from a long time ago - something about the ones with bears being fake/suspicious. I have no idea whether any of this is true.

Well that makes since then .... I cannot find this with the bear anywhere (except Ebay .. lol)  

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14 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

Taken from a blog.  Reseaqrch California Fractional Gold.

 

Identifying Fake California Gold

The photo above features a genuine California Fractional Gold piece with a US currency denomination on the reverse and a fake piece, or replica, on the right with a bear symbol, which is not from the 19th century, not gold and most assuredly not from California. It was listed in a Proxibid auction has "1855 Cal. Gold Token."

At best, this should have been listed as a "plated gold or brass replica."

If you spot a bear on the reverse, or any other symbol or text without an indication of denomination, such as "dollar," "dol." or even "d," my advice is not to bid more than $1. My local coin dealer sells them for that much, and he has a box of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for that info !

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While your token is likely a replica/fake, not all tokens with bears on the reverse are junk. The M.E. Hart set, "Coins of the Golden West" are considered highly collectible.

 

 

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Edited by Just Bob
I had a picture of a graded piece, but it would not load

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17 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

not all tokens with bears on the reverse are junk

I kind of figured that wasn't a hard and fast rule, but in your image, many of them say "souv. coins" - does that imply "souvenir"?

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1 hour ago, kbbpll said:

I kind of figured that wasn't a hard and fast rule, but in your image, many of them say "souv. coins" - does that imply "souvenir"?

Yes. Here is a link to a site that has some more detail, mostly about Farran Zerbe and his role in selling these and other souvenir tokens and coins.

http://www.filmsgraded.com/mehart/hartset.htm

 

I also read another site some time back that claimed that M.E. Hart was a lady, named Mary Hart, but I don't really remember much detail about the article.

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6 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

Yes. Here is a link to a site that has some more detail, mostly about Farran Zerbe and his role in selling these and other souvenir tokens and coins.

http://www.filmsgraded.com/mehart/hartset.htm

 

I also read another site some time back that claimed that M.E. Hart was a lady, named Mary Hart, but I don't really remember much detail about the article.

Thank you for this link.  Great info on here !

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Yes, thanks. Interesting read. So these "souvenirs" are now collectible, but in their day, regarded by "leading numismatists" as counterfeits or imitations. Sounds vaguely familiar.

The TmgT coin design looks similar to the 1/2 in the lower right, but not quite. At least the Zerbe ones were 10k gold.

CA_gold.jpg

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12 minutes ago, kbbpll said:

Yes, thanks. Interesting read. So these "souvenirs" are now collectible, but in their day, regarded by "leading numismatists" as counterfeits or imitations. Sounds vaguely familiar.

The TmgT coin design looks similar to the 1/2 in the lower right, but not quite. At least the Zerbe ones were 10k gold.

CA_gold.jpg

Some similarities but also many differences. The Eureka is also not separated by the helmet as well as that it has been pointed out about no denomination on it. So this makes more sense that it is most likely a fake as well

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39 minutes ago, TmgT said:

Just an update .... the token is a Commemorative Token with no gold content.

Reference? Link? Some of us would like to learn more! 

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12 minutes ago, Kirt said:

Reference? Link? Some of us would like to learn more! 

With the info I have learned today I searched various selling platforms and found this exact one listed with many disclosures on being  "non or not gold". 

Many of the listings imply that they are gold until you read the entire post .... some don't. Bottom line, I saw enough of them to determine it is a commemorative token. It has some value but not much, maybe 5 or ten bucks?? I attached one such listing.

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