ATS announces new anti-counterfeiting technology: anyone have input? 0

[MarkFeld]

9 minutes ago, Revenant said:

I guess it depends on how you see your hobby. If your collection is your savings then maybe so. My collection is bought with my small "fun budget," maybe more if I get a nice bonus. My liquid savings exists apart from this and so does my retirement money. So let prices drop. I'll buy more.

That sounds like a healthy and stress-free way to collect.

[MarkFeld]

34 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

I've got to admit this thought crossed my mind.  I've never sent a coin in to CAC therefore I don't know if any of mine have been or not but by judging from the generation of slab I'd think they have and didn't make it.  So, to me, any NGC or PCGS slab without a sticker is suspect.  Now I'll have slabs without the chip and I'll have to worry about their value dropping again.   It is just my opinion but this seems like a good time to sell and get out of the hobby.  I wonder what will be next?

My guess is that a large percentage of potential buyers for your coins won’t have concerns about authenticity or whether the holders are chip imbedded.

[Alex in PA.]

"My guess is that a large percentage of potential buyers for your coins won’t have concerns about authenticity or whether the holders are chip imbedded."

What will this large percentage of potential buyers be concerned about?

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Edited December 29, 2019 by Alex in PA.

[MarkFeld]

2 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

"My guess is that a large percentage of potential buyers for your coins won’t have concerns about authenticity or whether the holders are chip imbedded."

What will this large percentage of potential buyers be concerned about?

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In general, nothing in particular. If you have a coin which is graded by a well respected grading company, odds are strongly in your favor. Sure, some potential buyers might worry about authenticity, but far more others probably won’t, with or without a chip.

[Revenant]

17 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

"My guess is that a large percentage of potential buyers for your coins won’t have concerns about authenticity or whether the holders are chip imbedded."

What will this large percentage of potential buyers be concerned about?

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I think one of the things that is worth considering is, "What is getting faked?" For instance: There isn't a large collector base for my Netherlands 10G coins. They're mostly bought and sold as bullion substitutes and even the graded coins don't go for much over melt, even in gem grades. So you aren't likely to see a lot of Chinese counterfeits in fake slabs. There isn't enough of a market / demand for them to sell into.

[Alex in PA.]

 

Mr. Feld, I've been in this hobby far too long to ever believe the buyer is going to place the odds strongly in my favor. 

[MarkFeld]

1 minute ago, Alex in PA. said:

 

Mr. Feld, I've been in this hobby far too long to ever believe the buyer is going to place the odds strongly in my favor. 

It depends upon the buyer, the seller, the coin and the circumstances. But I was speaking with respect to presumed authenticity of your coins. And as I’m sure you know, buyers tend to place a lot more confidence and trust in coins graded by the top grading companies than they do in ungraded coins. Chips in some holders isn’t likely to cause buyers to worry about coins in non-chip holders.

[Jade Collection]

2 hours ago, Alex in PA. said:

I've got to admit this thought crossed my mind.  I've never sent a coin in to CAC therefore I don't know if any of mine have been or not but by judging from the generation of slab I'd think they have and didn't make it.  So, to me, any NGC or PCGS slab without a sticker is suspect.  Now I'll have slabs without the chip and I'll have to worry about their value dropping again.   It is just my opinion but this seems like a good time to sell and get out of the hobby.  I wonder what will be next?

@Alex in PA. Get into world coins! More variety and less drama

[Revenant]

43 minutes ago, Mk123 said:

@Alex in PA. Get into world coins! More variety and less drama

But more WINGS, apparently. Lol

[Jade Collection]

Just now, Revenant said:

But more WINGS, apparently. Lol

@Revenant Its rarely used and people aren't flocking to it like CAC. If I'm correct, WINGS has been out longer than CAC also!

[numisport]

20 hours ago, Mk123 said:

@numisport I believe NGC has said they imaged every coin they have graded but only in the last 10 or so years the pictures have been put on the verification page. I had a old soapbox fatty that had a pic and those are pretty old.

Sounds familiar and I just checked a couple recent purchases with six digit serials starting 269___ and 229___ with no images available. 269___ coin is in older generation fatty.

[Alex in PA.]

1 hour ago, Mk123 said:

Get into world coins! More variety and less drama

Yessir. 

[Revenant]

45 minutes ago, Mk123 said:

@Revenant Its rarely used and people aren't flocking to it like CAC. If I'm correct, WINGS has been out longer than CAC also!

Just joking around.

[Conder101]

On 12/29/2019 at 11:18 AM, Alex in PA. said:

What will this large percentage of potential buyers be concerned about?

What the grade is on the label.

 

On 12/29/2019 at 1:28 PM, Mk123 said:

If I'm correct, WINGS has been out longer than CAC also!

I don't believe so.  Nope CAC founded 2007, WINGS founded 2008.

[numisport]

On 12/28/2019 at 7:46 AM, MarkFeld said:

I’m surprised by and disappointed in all the negativity and pettiness here. As robec1347 said “I'm pretty sure if NGC were to make a similar announcement here the reaction would be much the same as ATS.”

True, the technology won’t help with coins that are on line, out of reach, etc. But it will help with lots of other coins.  And yes, it will cost extra if someone wants to have their coins slabbed or re-slabbed, to include it. If you don’t want to spend the money for it, don’t. And just because counterfeiters might or probably will try to combat it, doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing.

Just because someone likes the idea, doesn’t mean they’re a PCGS Koolaid drinker.
 

 

I would guess that you won't have a choice but to pay for it. Will it be an option or will all future PCGS holders have these chips ?

[Revenant]

37 minutes ago, numisport said:

I would guess that you won't have a choice but to pay for it. Will it be an option or will all future PCGS holders have these chips ?

I imagine it'll be first one, then the other.

[Coinbuf]

1 hour ago, numisport said:

I would guess that you won't have a choice but to pay for it. Will it be an option or will all future PCGS holders have these chips ?

Right now it is only being offered on the gold shield service level and no price increase was announced for that service level.  Of course that submission level is the premium service level and is the most expensive (except for show and walkthrough type services), but does also include a trueview so many see that submission level as a bargain.  On the thread ats the ceo posted this:

"This chip tech is scheduled to roll out in the Spring 2020, starting with our Gold Shield products. Why just Gold Shield? Simply put, between Coins, Cards, and Banknotes Collectors Universe holders about five million collectibles globally each year! While rolling out a massive, global chip integration all at once didn't seem practical, the target is to eventually integrate NFC chip technology into all coin and banknote holders on a move forward basis by 2021."

His statement doesn't address if there will be any price increase in any of the submission levels in the future as a result of this new chip so right now we really don't know if there will be any changes to the submission prices that are a result of this.

[kbbpll]

My impression, perhaps wrong, is that in the quantity we're talking about these chips cost about 10 cents. More costly will be slapping it under the label and making sure the right chip is associated with the right coin. It will be interesting to see if "mechanical errors" pop up.

[Revenant]

2 hours ago, kbbpll said:

My impression, perhaps wrong, is that in the quantity we're talking about these chips cost about 10 cents. More costly will be slapping it under the label and making sure the right chip is associated with the right coin. It will be interesting to see if "mechanical errors" pop up.

And people getting these will have to make a point to scan each coin as it comes back from grading to make sure it's right. Otherwise they / the buyer might get a nasty surprise when they go to sell later.

Also, because the chips are relatively cheap, and based on the wording of the announcement, I imagine long term they'll incorporate these into every single slab / coin, just because it'll probably be cheaper / easier / more efficient in the long term to have 1 slab design and 1 process to go through for everything / everyone. 

[RWB]

The best security device is one that is silent.

[Just Bob]

5 hours ago, RWB said:

The best security device is one that is silent.

That rules out dogs. 

[RWB]

11 hours ago, Just Bob said:

That rules out dogs. 

Dogs are too large to get into coin slabs -- although some of the big slabs might accommodate  a "Thimble Rottweiler."

:)

[VKurtB]

On 12/29/2019 at 10:07 AM, Alex in PA. said:

I've got to admit this thought crossed my mind.  I've never sent a coin in to CAC therefore I don't know if any of mine have been or not but by judging from the generation of slab I'd think they have and didn't make it.  So, to me, any NGC or PCGS slab without a sticker is suspect.  Now I'll have slabs without the chip and I'll have to worry about their value dropping again.   It is just my opinion but this seems like a good time to sell and get out of the hobby.  I wonder what will be next?

If you decide to do this, send all unwanted material to me at:

LOL!

[Alex in PA.]

I will keep you in mind sir.