Coin authenticity 1795 drapes bust coin 1 1

[Ginaxo24]

I’m having a hard time telling if my draped bust coin is real or fake. It’s from my mothers collection and I don’t know anything about coins or how to tell the difference between real ones and fake ones. I would really appreciate the help if anyone knows

Edited November 20, 2019 by Ginaxo24
Misspelled word and autocorrect

[Greenstang]

Welcome to the Forum.

Sorry, but that is not even a good counterfeit. Didn't have to look twice to tell that.

[JKK]

'Stang is right. A counterfeit, and they weren't even making a half-baked effort. At least you checked and knew not to get your hopes up too high (a good idea when going through relatives' collections).

[Just Bob]

Welcome to the forum.  The  guys are right: it's a fake.

[Ginaxo24]

Thank you everyone, from the few pictures I looked at online I was thinking it was fake but wanted to find some pros just to make sure first. I have some other coins of hers that might actually be worth something but again I’m no expert I just know my grandmother and her made a coin collection. I don’t think I’m looking to sell them but just want to find out about their value and maybe a lite history behind them. I’ll be sure to pop back and forth 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Ginaxo24
Spellcheck

[JKK]

13 minutes ago, Ginaxo24 said:

Thank you everyone, from the few pictures I looked at online I was thinking it was fake but wanted to find some pros just to make sure first. I have some other coins of hers that might actually be worth something but again I’m no expert I just know my grandmother and her made a coin collection. I don’t think I’m looking to sell them but just want to find out about their value and maybe a lite history behind them. I’ll be sure to pop back and forth 

You did it right. If you have questions about others, feel free to post them. You already did both sides, so we don't have to bug you about that (you would not believe how many people just post one side and think that's enough).

Cropping is recommended, so that we see the coin as blown up as feasible. If it's an ID question, or authenticity, weight and diameter are also needed most of the time. In this case the detail was so cheesy we didn't need those. We have no expectation of you selling them--people here just enjoy looking at coins.

[Jade Collection]

terrible fake, if you have pics of her other coins please take a pic and we can let you know if they are legit or fake

[Numismatic, A.A.S.]

Tell em take it back to mormon country where it came from...

[Conder101]

11 hours ago, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:

Tell em take it back to mormon country where it came from...

Where did that uncalled for comment come from.

[Numismatic, A.A.S.]

On 11/21/2019 at 9:09 PM, Conder101 said:

Where did that uncalled for comment come from.

Most counterfeit coins in that area are traced back to the Mormon's, whom for years told people that their great grandfather's had them saved..which, is a lie and a tool used to sell to others who are non mormon. I guess my "uncalled" for comment comes from experience and however disgusting it may seem...it is by far the truth.

Figured you would of known that or are we not allowed in the new "Millennium" to disclose our truths....others who read this will now think I am bashing mormon's....when in fact I'm only assuring you that those types of counterfeits in that area, come from them.......YOU DON'T THINK THERE ARE MORMONS ON HIGH SPEED COMPUTERS BUYING COUNTERFEIT COINS FROM CHINA DO YOU?

[JKK]

4 hours ago, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:

Most counterfeit coins in that area are traced back to the Mormon's, whom for years told people that their great grandfather's had them saved..which, is a lie and a tool used to sell to others who are non mormon. I guess my "uncalled" for comment comes from experience and however disgusting it may seem...it is by far the truth.

Figured you would of known that or are we not allowed in the new "Millennium" to disclose our truths....others who read this will now think I am bashing mormon's....when in fact I'm only assuring you that those types of counterfeits in that area, come from them.......YOU DON'T THINK THERE ARE MORMONS ON HIGH SPEED COMPUTERS BUYING COUNTERFEIT COINS FROM CHINA DO YOU?

Do you have any documentation for this? I've lived much of my life at least near significant numbers of LDS people. While their communities have cultural foibles and issues and myopias like any other, this doesn't sound like the Mormons I know. Kindly provide some sort of link to a credible source that documents this.

[Numismatic, A.A.S.]

9 hours ago, JKK said:

While their communities have cultural foibles and issues and myopias 

I didn't know they did? I'm not one to judge the cultural foibles or their so called issues and could care less if you pick them apart. All I know is what I stated about the number of counterfeit coins from them. I also owe you no evidence of my statement.  You definitely have never experienced this, have you even tried to buy coins from them? Really, tell the truth, don't just make a "noble" statement, really...what coins in the last 30 years until this Spring have you looked at from them and be honest....If you want to be a social justice warrior, do it at someone else's expense.

[JKK]

11 minutes ago, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:

I didn't know they did? I'm not one to judge the cultural foibles or their so called issues and could care less if you pick them apart. All I know is what I stated about the number of counterfeit coins from them. I also owe you no evidence of my statement.  You definitely have never experienced this, have you even tried to buy coins from them? Really, tell the truth, don't just make a "noble" statement, really...what coins in the last 30 years until this Spring have you looked at from them and be honest....If you want to be a social justice warrior, do it at someone else's expense.

In other words, you have no evidence and just want to bloviate, expecting to be believed as though you were some oracle--then getting all crabby when challenged.

Not only do I not believe you, I don't even believe you are thinking clearly.

[Numismatic, A.A.S.]

45 minutes ago, JKK said:

In other words, you have no evidence and just want to bloviate, expecting to be believed as though you were some oracle--then getting all crabby when challenged.

Not only do I not believe you, I don't even believe you are thinking clearly.

Just as I thought.....never once hunted and viewed coins from there....it's OK to research and Love and enjoy coins...I'm sure your an astute collector and an intelligent person, probably have an amazing collection, if you put your hat in the ring son just make sure you've walked down that particular road before....peace 

[kbbpll]

"in that area", "from there" - I'm curious where you get any notion from this post as to where the coin is "from", let alone proceed to attaching a specific religion to it.

[VKurtB]

Okay, okay, this story about Mormons and counterfeiting is neither baseless (there is literature on it) nor is it conclusive (there are exculpatory explanations). But to not be aware of it is a little intellectually lazy in my opinion at least for those curious about numismatic lore. It all goes back to the time around the California gold rush and the stories are highly controversial and lacking in documented truth. Those who have read and take literally the charges made in a book called One Nation Under Gods claim that government records indicate that Brigham Young, Willard Richards, Parley Pratt, and Orson Hyde were involved in making counterfeit coins, and that this may have "started under Joseph's leadership". There was an indictment that never ended in a trial because the defendants, depending on your view, either fled or simply continued their pilgrimage.

 

Sometimes things become "common knowledge" and get assimilated into one's knowledge base without being able to cite authorities. These "link please" retorts are really really childish, to my way of thinking. Some people "just know stuff". Just because YOU don't know doesn't obligate the teller of that story to provide you a source link. Try researching it yourself maybe? Do I believe the story? No, it is badly lacking in specifics and detail, and criminal charges need to be proven to the highest standards of proof. Do you believe other famous numismatic icons were child molesters? This field is full of nasty stories, some more proven than others.

 

Near as I can see here, "from there" looks like China, to me.

•  

Edited November 26, 2019 by VKurtB

[JKK]

2 hours ago, VKurtB said:

Okay, okay, this story about Mormons and counterfeiting is neither baseless (there is literature on it) nor is it conclusive (there are exculpatory explanations). But to not be aware of it is a little intellectually lazy in my opinion at least for those curious about numismatic lore. It all goes back to the time around the California gold rush and the stories are highly controversial and lacking in documented truth. Those who have read and take literally the charges made in a book called One Nation Under Gods claim that government records indicate that Brigham Young, Willard Richards, Parley Pratt, and Orson Hyde were involved in making counterfeit coins, and that this may have "started under Joseph's leadership". There was an indictment that never ended in a trial because the defendants, depending on your view, either fled or simply continued their pilgrimage.

 

Sometimes things become "common knowledge" and get assimilated into one's knowledge base without being able to cite authorities. These "link please" retorts are really really childish, to my way of thinking. Some people "just know stuff". Just because YOU don't know doesn't obligate the teller of that story to provide you a source link. Try researching it yourself maybe? Do I believe the story? No, it is badly lacking in specifics and detail, and criminal charges need to be proven to the highest standards of proof. Do you believe other famous numismatic icons were child molesters? This field is full of nasty stories, some more proven than others.

 

Near as I can see here, "from there" looks like China, to me.

•  

People are only obligated to offer evidence if they wish to be taken seriously. If they don't care about that, then it's fair for others not to care what they say. It is not at all childish to ask for evidence; what's childish is to simply dismiss something without keeping an open mind toward evidence that might be presented. If instead someone gets angry, condescending, and dismissive when asked for it, that sends its own message--and it is not one that leads toward credibility.

[VKurtB]

16 hours ago, JKK said:

People are only obligated to offer evidence if they wish to be taken seriously. If they don't care about that, then it's fair for others not to care what they say. It is not at all childish to ask for evidence; what's childish is to simply dismiss something without keeping an open mind toward evidence that might be presented. If instead someone gets angry, condescending, and dismissive when asked for it, that sends its own message--and it is not one that leads toward credibility.

I guess my underlying attitude on the whole thing is that if you've been reduced to discussing it on an Internet discussion board open to the general public, that "taken seriously" ship has already pretty much sailed. I use this as a fun diversion. I don't take too much I read on the Internet very seriously at all, not even here.

[KarenHolcomb]

Well my, my, my...tempers do seem to be getting hotter and hotter each time I return. Why is that fellows? Do we all need to sit down and have a Pow-Wow? I'm sorry, a chat. I think A.S.S.,I mean A.A.S., of course, was maybe using the whole Mormon thing like so many of us, you guys too at some point, I'm sure, have used the old 'he's gonna try and Jew me down on my price' deal. IMHO anyway. That's how I read it anyway. 

Now Numis, it's you turn...you did kind of fly right off the handle and into a defensive mode which seemed to border actual anger, and that's no good either. Surely no better than JKK's jump at you for proof of a Wives Tale that neither you or anyone would ever be able to provide and I think JKK knew as much when he demanded it.

And then we have Kurt...my good buddy Kurt. Lol! He actually came to dudes defense! Wowzers! Never thought I'd see the day. So ima leave him alone for now. For now.

So. What are we left with? 1 Newbie up top who seems like a decent dude given our limited info on him. He's respectful and has ok photos and is likely wishing he'd picked another site to ask his question on and will probably not be back.

We have an entire buttload of 'experts', half of which know their worth and have no need or desire for girly squabbles or to prove anything to anyone, and the other half who, from what I've been reading-and I've been reading quite a lot here- have been butting heads and leading each other right through the fields to the battle line and are ready for war. Why? No idea. I went back through these past couple of weeks and I read all the exchanges and I've witnessed it building from minute disagreements to a full blown and blatant disrespect for one another that has no place here. 

You guys ever think to ask one other how long you been at this and add the years together for a grand total of combined years of Numismatic experience and knowledge? We know Kurts an old fart, and JKK likely isn't far behind him, and I bet the 2 of them alone have 100years to pass around. Add in Numis  and Bob and Condor and all the rest and you're looking at 200-250yrs+ of combined and diverse knowledge that so many of us Newbies can benefit from. But not if you are squabbling and being rude all the time and run us all off!

Each of you has knowledge of many different aspects of the hobby. Maybe instead of trying to updo the other and prove yourself more intelligent you might consider calling a truce and learning from and teaching each other. We all have strengths and weaknesses and attempting to hide our weaknesses and boast our strengths all the while trying to best another human being and fellow collector does absolutely naught for the big picture. That behavior will not help a thing yet can hurt a whole lot. So stop it. Act your ages, please. Nobody here is better yhan anyone else.

When everyone puts in an effort to above all be respectful, you'll be surprised at how much goodness will rise out of it. So let's all bite our tongues and give the other guys at least some feigned respect and the benefit of the doubt for one short week and see where we are next Friday. Just forget the past months of rising tensions like they never happened. Make like you all just met today and that you are all on equal footing for the 1 week.  Can y'all consider that? Start fresh? Please? Because I like and appreciate each of you for you similarities AND your differences and I have gained as much from one of you as I do the others and I am a better Numismatist because of you all, not just 1 or 2 of you. 

So how about it? Truce? 1 short week? 

Thank goodness for speak to text. Ah the conveniences of this modern world we live in...

Now if you don't mind, skip on over and feast your eyes on the spectacular Die Clash I'm about about to share. And please don't ban me for interfering. I am a girl, after all, and that's what we do.

[VKurtB]

"Blessed are the peacemakers..." Let's face it, Karen. Numismatics is a field bereft of humility populated by opinionated folks who are used to being the smartest guy or gal in the room when they're doing anything else. It's our basic nature. Now put several thousand similar folks in a huge room, and you know what you've got? You've got an ANA convention, is what you've got! If you see them "in the flesh" and hear what they know, and experience it at full (non-typing) speed, it's an utterly amazing experience. Next month at the NYINC show in New York, I will walk into a bourse floor and be in utter awe at the intellects around me. You wouldn't think that one of those "smartest guy in the room" types would care for that experience, but at this point, that's exactly what gets my metaphorical juices flowing. The way smart people learn is by hanging out with even smarter people. We have universities for exactly that purpose. Major shows are "numismatic universities". And the tuition is fairly cheap, but NOT free.