Grade gold coins or not? 0

[durr3]

Hello,

I have four NGC graded gold coins and nine raw gold coins.

How do you decide to send for grading or not?

(2) 2011 $50 Gold Eagles

1912 $10 Indian

1910 $5 Indian

1914 $2 1/2 Indian

1857 $1 Indian Princess

1982 UK Sovereign 1/4 oz

2017 UK Rooster 1/4 oz

1986 Canada Maple 1/10 oz

Thank you

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by durr3

[kbbpll]

The 1910, 1912 and 1914 are all in the top 50 most counterfeited coins, so I would consider how you obtained them and get opinions on authenticity before spending money on grading.

[durr3]

Thanks for the heads up, but these all came from a reputable dealer.  

 

[JKK]

6 minutes ago, durr3 said:

Thanks for the heads up, but these all came from a reputable dealer.  

 

So, supposedly, did the two counterfeits in the batch I just helped a lady liquidate.

[durr3]

8 minutes ago, JKK said:

So, supposedly, did the two counterfeits in the batch I just helped a lady liquidate.

Oh, my....I better have them tested.  Thanks

 

[JKK]

5 minutes ago, durr3 said:

Oh, my....I better have them tested.  Thanks

 

That's one thing grading will do for you, if you want to be dead sure. That's how we found out. I had already been suspicious of them and marked both as questionable, and sure enough, the grading service body bagged them as not genuine. Both were incuse Indian designs from the early 1900s, a $5 and a $2.50. Also, just because they test positive for gold doesn't make them authentic. It's quite possible to plate a cast counterfeit struck from something else, though in most cases weight should be a good test for that because I don't see anything on the periodic table that is common, easily worked, and similar in density to the Au/Cu alloy.

[kbbpll]

Posting clear, focused images (both sides) here would help. Lots of people could readily ID a counterfeit just from the images. There are just so many fakes of the Indians that it would be my first step before spending money on grading.

[durr3]

2 hours ago, kbbpll said:

Posting clear, focused images (both sides) here would help. Lots of people could readily ID a counterfeit just from the images. There are just so many fakes of the Indians that it would be my first step before spending money on grading.

I will do just that.  Let me take some sharp pics and post them.  Thanks

[durr3]

[durr3]

8 minutes ago, durr3 said:

Are these good enough?  I have the reverse pics too.

 

 

 

[Marquez-Collector]

19 hours ago, durr3 said:

Are these good enough?  I have the reverse pics too.

 

 

 

I think, Posting front and back of each coin separately will help the gurus here tell you with certainty if they are real or not.

[VKurtB]

My personal opinion on "classic" gold, pre-1934, is that it is always better to have it graded, just for authentication. Buyers love to "low ball" offers on non-graded material. For modern gold, it is less important if original government packaging is involved. The "delta" on value per grade on modern and not so rare classic gold is quite small, unless you get into truly pristine coins - real "monster" condition.

[durr3]

5 hours ago, VKurtB said:

My personal opinion on "classic" gold, pre-1934, is that it is always better to have it graded, just for authentication. Buyers love to "low ball" offers on non-graded material. For modern gold, it is less important if original government packaging is involved. The "delta" on value per grade on modern and not so rare classic gold is quite small, unless you get into truly pristine coins - real "monster" condition.

ok thanks.  I had these tested for gold content and they all tested good.

[Conder101]

On 11/3/2019 at 11:14 AM, JKK said:

Also, just because they test positive for gold doesn't make them authentic. It's quite possible to plate a cast counterfeit struck from something else, though in most cases weight should be a good test for that because I don't see anything on the periodic table that is common, easily worked, and similar in density to the Au/Cu alloy.

Weight may not help either.  Most of the fake gold US coins coming out of the Middle East in the 1950's and 60's were gold of the proper weight and fineness, sometime a little more.  They were making their money off the fact that US gold coins would bring two to three time the melt value.  So they would buy gold at $35 an ounce, make fakes and sell it at $70 an oz or more

[VKurtB]

Authentication involves more than the alloy, as Conder101 has said. It's also knowledge of how they should look. The multiple above bullion value has shrunk quite low from where it used to be. One can no longer expect 2x or 3x of melt for genuine U.S. gold coins as was once the case. Compared to bullion value, U.S. gold is "cheap" right now. Even nice St. Gaudens $20's can be had for a little above melt. That makes the certification need much less of a sure bet than it used to be. If you can afford to "hold" until the market gets sane again, that'd be my advice. Being in a hurry seldom works to the holder's benefit.

[Crawtomatic]

1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

If you can afford to "hold" until the market gets sane again, that'd be my advice. 

Or is the market currently sane for what my daughter refers to as "little chunks of metal"?  Rough estimate is that NGC has ~900,000 St.-Gaudens in slabs.  Why should we expect much of a numismatic value premium above spot for these coins?  I get that the design is beautiful and well regarded but there wasn't much need for the common person to circulate this denomination, right?  Which means they sat in bank vaults for large transfers only.  Even if many were melted after 1933 there's still far more supply than actual collector need.  They're just glorified bullion eagles if you ask me.

Personally, I'm more interested in the smaller gold denominations like the OP shows.  Coins which entered circulation as a primary purpose.  Issued on payday, took a beating, got lost, melted, placed in jewelry, etc...  Therefore making those that remain in uncirculated condition an exception.

Research reference:  AWW (average weekly wage) for an unskilled laborer in the metal manufacturing industry in 1914 was $9.919 ($0.218/hour x 45.5 average hours).  I'd imagine with daily/monthly expenses they most likely would never have a need to own a coin above the $5 denomination.  "Wartime changes in wages, September, 1914-March, 1919. National Industrial Conference Board."

[Matt_dac]

My recommendation is to never buy raw pre-33 US gold.  The coins have sufficient value to be graded with the insurance of authenticity.