There are three distinct types of 1908 Double Eagle 0

[GoldFinger1969]

52 minutes ago, jtryka said:

I started collecting Saints a couple years after the hoard came out, it was a lot of marketing and non-disclosure of key facts (like Wells Fargo lent their name to the hoard, but it was a private hoard stored in safe deposit boxes at Wells Fargo, but add that name and it would be easy to imagine they were discovered in the back of some vault or on a stage coach somewhere in the old west.  The reality was that I don't think these were much different than many of the European bank hoards, but they were of extremely high quality with a large number graded higher than MS-65, but ultimately all common date.

Welcome JTRYKA.....

(1)  My understanding is that the hoard was NOT found at a Wells Fargo bank, but once they were found they were STORED at a Wells Fargo bank.   Am I correct ?

(2)  You're right, they weren't much different than many European hoards (I'm gonna guess they came from South or Central America, given the high quality which indicates lack of movement).  But they really were a ton of Gem and Superb Gem Quality coins.  Probably the highest overall quality hoard ever found -- and 20,000 coins is pretty big, too !

They probably needed the marketing tricks because gold was in the doldrums....it was stuck at less than half the 1980 peak for most of the 1990's.....plus, numismatics had burst after the 1989-90 Coin Bubble...with all that in your wake, you need something to sell coins that are basically bullion plus a premium, let alone the MS67's and 68's which are going to sell for multiples of the bullion price (I'm going to guess that the MS68's sold for $5,000 or so).

[RWB]

The so-called "high quality" was really just normal production for the US Mints. MS-65 or better would have been typical for coins kept in their original bags and not shipped around a lot.

[GoldFinger1969]

17 minutes ago, RWB said:

The so-called "high quality" was really just normal production for the US Mints. MS-65 or better would have been typical for coins kept in their original bags and not shipped around a lot.

Yup, I picked that up from your book.  I guess alot more movement and counting in Europe than South of The Border !

[Cat Bath]

Behold!....The "F-15 Eagle"

I bet this non-variety isn't in the book

Anyway, I'm always looking at saints and I noticed that the Denver type II has a lot more die rotation than any other.

The anvil die must have rotated CCW before they noticed & corrected it.

At that time the Denver mint had not been coining for that long or maybe the operator took a long lunch.

 

The tell on the obverse is the low fat D that is about the only D they managed to smack straight that year.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Cat Bath

[Cat Bath]

I have a date set so I only needed one 1908.

Didn't like the triangle nose of Liberty or the blind eagle so I had to have a Type III

Of the 3 possibilities, the 08-D is the least expensive.

This one is a MS65 (C) but I still like her beautiful little face.

Always liked the "just got up" look of the 07 eagle's neck feathers though. Wish they would have kept that with the new die.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Cat Bath

[GoldFinger1969]

Cat, do you have Roger's Saints book ?  Several pages on the 1908-D No Motto, more than other books which just give paragraphs.

[Cat Bath]

1 hour ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Cat, do you have Roger's Saints book ?  Several pages on the 1908-D No Motto, more than other books which just give paragraphs.

No, It's one of the things I've been meaning to get.

I want credit for this new F-15 non-variety if it isn't in the 1st edition.

Dang...How do I get out of double space?

[GoldFinger1969]

2 minutes ago, Cat Bath said:

No, It's one of the things I've been meaning to get.  I want credit for this new F-15 non-variety if it isn't in the 1st edition.   Dang...How do I get out of double space?

You won't regret it -- the book is outstanding.

I default to double space whenever I hit ENTER but if you want stuff single-spaced just delete the spaces between sentence, as I did above with your 3-line quote which is now 1 1/2 lines. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/27/2020 at 11:19 AM, Cat Bath said:

No, It's one of the things I've been meaning to get. I want credit for this new F-15 non-variety if it isn't in the 1st edition. Dang...How do I get out of double space?

Beautiful coin, BTW. 

[GoldFinger1969]

Does anybody have any books or sources which could give me the Population Census (by grade) for the 1908 No Motto BEFORE the Wells Fargo Hoard was found, like around 1997 or earlier ?

I'm trying to see what happened to the price of (high-quality) 1908 No Mottos before/after the hoard was found and hit the market.

Edited February 5, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[Cat Bath]

1996 Pop report...

 

[GoldFinger1969]

Thanks Cat.....I believe the 1st 1908 WF NM's were released in 1997 so they shouldn't have leaked out into the 1996 population report.

BTW, what is that a picture of that has all the data ?

Also, if you don't want double-spacing keep typing after each sentence.  The way it looks in the REPLY box is how it will look in the post.  You can always delete the spaces between the sentences to make it fewer paragraphs.

[Cat Bath]

1 hour ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

BTW, what is that a picture of that has all the data ?

PCGS pop report. I got it off e-bay for ten bucks

[GoldFinger1969]

On 10/12/2019 at 8:18 PM, RWB said:

Can members post pictures of the three varieties from their collections? 

This discussion and the Wells Fargo Hoard thread -- plus your book -- really got me turned onto getting a nice 1908 No Motto Wells coin, esp. if I have to wait on a High Relief for $$$ reasons.

Hopefully I can post pics soon.  Hoping I can stretch for an MS66 or 67.

 

[Cat Bath]

On 2/10/2021 at 10:19 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

This discussion and the Wells Fargo Hoard thread -- plus your book -- really got me turned onto getting a nice 1908 No Motto Wells coin, esp. 

I'd go for a type #2 1908 (long ray front & no motto back)

Same price but a lot more rare. Someday I think they will make a distinction on the label and the price will go way up.

[RWB]

The only previous distinction for 1908 DE was long ray and short ray. Breen publicized this, but failed to look beyond the obvious and didn't identify the three distinctly different hub pairings. Few seemed to have paid attention to long vs short rays, so the chances are good of finding a "no motto" coin with long rays at a favorable price, as Cat Bath mentioned.

[GoldFinger1969]

8 hours ago, Cat Bath said:

I'd go for a type #2 1908 (long ray front & no motto back) Same price but a lot more rare. Someday I think they will make a distinction on the label and the price will go way up.

I think you are right, Cat.  Thanks for the heads-up.   

[GoldFinger1969]

5 hours ago, RWB said:

The only previous distinction for 1908 DE was long ray and short ray. Breen publicized this, but failed to look beyond the obvious and didn't identify the three distinctly different hub pairings. Few seemed to have paid attention to long vs short rays, so the chances are good of finding a "no motto" coin with long rays at a favorable price, as Cat Bath mentioned.

Yes, your book mentioned that the Wells Fargo No Motto hoard is almost all Short Rays.   In fact, before reading your book, I don't think I ever saw any mention of the length of the sun's rays.  Check that....1 quick 1-liner here or on CT.  I remember saying "WTF" and then when I read your book I knew what they were talking about.  

Edited February 16, 2021 by GoldFinger1969