Whadda ya think? 1909 VDB Grade
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Picked this up on impulse (I really need to stop browsing coin shops... it's gonna get me in trouble.  xD)... it was marked MS63RB <not RD... fat fingers, late night)... pretty sure that's overly optimistic.   I didn't pay a 63 price, so I'm not too upset.  

 

What says the peanut gallery?  Maybe MS60?

 

1909VDB-O-sized.jpg

1909VDB-R-sized.jpg

Edited by Thompson2

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Oh - and is it just me, or do the two spots above the R in Liberty and the spot crowding the Y look like strike throughs?  I’d say damage after the Y except for the overall cleanliness of the coin...

 

 

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Mrs Karen, I think u have an awesome outlook, an your attitude/personality seems to be knowledgeable, understanding and way more valuable than someone with years of experience. Forums are meant to help  beginners and others who have questions in their hobbies that they enjoy doing, not meant to discourage them from them.. Everyone has different reasons n pursuits in what they do and how they get there..I joined this last night. But doesn't seem like it's very friendly.. Almost seems like Facebook drama but a tad bit worse cause u don't truly know all of the people on here...

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6 hours ago, Lisae228 said:

Mrs Karen, I think u have an awesome outlook, an your attitude/personality seems to be knowledgeable, understanding and way more valuable than someone with years of experience. Forums are meant to help  beginners and others who have questions in their hobbies that they enjoy doing, not meant to discourage them from them.. Everyone has different reasons n pursuits in what they do and how they get there..I joined this last night. But doesn't seem like it's very friendly.. Almost seems like Facebook drama but a tad bit worse cause u don't truly know all of the people on here...

Lol... wrong thread... but I have a feeling Karen will see it here anyway.  :)

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Well, imho, the 2 dings are merely 110 year old bag marks, the coin is definitely not red-idk anything about fat fingers and late nights. I also don't think it is even close to MS63 and I only zoomed in on the obverse. I doubt NGC or PCGS was the grader. All that said... I absolutely love it. I think it is a very handsome coin. The mix of colors on the reverse just do something for me, plus I've always been partial to the dark brown Cents as opposed to lighter or even red ones. I also totally dig the brushed finish. Ok I went back and enlarged the reverse as well. Those are some fairly deep scrapes above the O of ONE, so definitely 60 to 62 tops. Still a grand example though. I'd have totally bought it too.

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19 hours ago, Lisae228 said:

Mrs Karen, I think u have an awesome outlook, an your attitude/personality seems to be knowledgeable, understanding and way more valuable than someone with years of experience. Forums are meant to help  beginners and others who have questions in their hobbies that they enjoy doing, not meant to discourage them from them.. Everyone has different reasons n pursuits in what they do and how they get there..I joined this last night. But doesn't seem like it's very friendly.. Almost seems like Facebook drama but a tad bit worse cause u don't truly know all of the people on here...

Well, I had entered a big long response and all of a sudden it was just gone. Maybe I wasn't meant to say publicly what I had written. The Universe is hard at work on me tonight. Anywhooo...please don't allow one lonely old dude to run you off. The guys in this forum are truly the best of the best and idk what I'd have done without them. I like my FB Groups too but these guys are top of the line and most of the time very patient and helpful, but everyone has bad days and I've noticed one of them is MIA for about a week so maybe that is on their minds too. So don't run off! Hey, stick around! (You gotta kinda sing those last 2 lines)You will learn much and if you can take the criticisms that are sure to come your way, you might just make some friends while we're at it. Just remember, always post both sides of your coin with a clear question and close up of the questioned area. It makes all our lives easier. Easy=Happy -Karen

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8 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Well, imho, the 2 dings are merely 110 year old bag marks, the coin is definitely not red-idk anything about fat fingers and late nights. I also don't think it is even close to MS63 and I only zoomed in on the obverse. I doubt NGC or PCGS was the grader. All that said... I absolutely love it. I think it is a very handsome coin. The mix of colors on the reverse just do something for me, plus I've always been partial to the dark brown Cents as opposed to lighter or even red ones. I also totally dig the brushed finish. Ok I went back and enlarged the reverse as well. Those are some fairly deep scrapes above the O of ONE, so definitely 60 to 62 tops. Still a grand example though. I'd have totally bought it too.

Yeah, not red... maaaaayyybe red-brown, but not likely.  It was one of those in the cardboard with hand written "grade" on it.  I was thinking 60 on it.  I had missed the scar above the "O"... good call.

I'm not sure about the marks on the obverse... I thought most bag marks are more like lines,  not holes.  That's why I was confused.  

And it's even nicer in person.  I still can't quite capture the colors correctly.  Didn't really care what it was rated (mostly because I didn't trust what they had on it), but it's sure pretty.  

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On 8/4/2019 at 5:19 AM, Lisae228 said:

Mrs Karen, I think u have an awesome outlook, an your attitude/personality seems to be knowledgeable, understanding and way more valuable than someone with years of experience. Forums are meant to help  beginners and others who have questions in their hobbies that they enjoy doing, not meant to discourage them from them.. Everyone has different reasons n pursuits in what they do and how they get there..I joined this last night. But doesn't seem like it's very friendly.. Almost seems like Facebook drama but a tad bit worse cause u don't truly know all of the people on here...

 

8 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Well, I had entered a big long response and all of a sudden it was just gone. Maybe I wasn't meant to say publicly what I had written. The Universe is hard at work on me tonight. Anywhooo...please don't allow one lonely old dude to run you off. The guys in this forum are truly the best of the best and idk what I'd have done without them. I like my FB Groups too but these guys are top of the line and most of the time very patient and helpful, but everyone has bad days and I've noticed one of them is MIA for about a week so maybe that is on their minds too. So don't run off! Hey, stick around! (You gotta kinda sing those last 2 lines)You will learn much and if you can take the criticisms that are sure to come your way, you might just make some friends while we're at it. Just remember, always post both sides of your coin with a clear question and close up of the questioned area. It makes all our lives easier. Easy=Happy -Karen

What Karen said (she's good people, in case that wasn't clear).  Not sure why that guy's got a bug up his butt.  Seems like kind of an (at least from his posts).  He's been doing this for 56 years and has clearly forgotten why he started.  And he has also lost sight of the fact that not everyone can (or necessarily wants to ) collect high-grade coins...  The really funny thing to me is that he thinks error coins are a waste of time but obviously fails to see the joy it brings people and just the thrill of the hunt... If it didn't make my eyes hurt, I'd probably be buying up rolls to hunt through... :lol:

Edited by Thompson2

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Lol.  I will stay. I don't run off to easy..as long as truth is in with criticism in a tasteful way I'm good..I've very upfront n honest..so I like that..I mean no malice when I'm being honest..I appreciate your help n appreciate the honesty.. Thank y'all

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"Forums are meant to help  beginners and others who have questions in their hobbies that they enjoy doing, not meant to discourage them from them."

Are they? Are they REALLY? I must admit that it had never occurred to me that encouraging people was the purpose of forums. If the truth comes across as "discouraging" then I view that as neither a good thing nor a bad thing - it's just a "thing". I will provide honesty, often downright BRUTAL honesty. That's who I am and what I do. I don't engage in "Happy Talk". You will ALWAYS get an honest assessment from me.

 

Now, your 1909VDB is a very nice coin. BN range in color, for sure. I'll also say that while the photos are very nice, clear, sharp, and big enough, the brighter areas on Lincoln's bust give me QUESTIONS. I'd like to see this coin "moving" under a light to be dead certain what those brighter areas are. I THINK it's a MS range coin, and I THINK it might be an MS63BN. But if those brighter spots are wear, and I can't tell whether they are or not, then it becomes TECHNICALLY an AU58. However, even if they are "friction", under modern TPG standards, it may be a MS62BN. The entire range of 55-62 has undergone changes in standards.

 

It be darned proud to own that cent.

 

By the way, NOT lonely, and NOT sorry. Y'all can drop by at Dealer Registration at the ANA Rosemont show and say "hi", cuz I'll be there making dealer photo badges for the ANA. I'll also be exhibiting and JUDGING exhibits while I'm there, and shooting photos for The Numismatist. But you'll NEVER see me on Facebook, ever. "I jus' don't roll that way."

Edited by VKurtB

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Thompson, it will probably sound odd, mostly because idk your age, but have you ever watched Rug Rats? Bag marks to me look like cartoon kid teeth. Lol! There's usually 2 together and are straight on the top and rounded almost to a point on bottom. Now, of course that would marks made by a coin with a Reeded edge and not by another Cent. Again, I think it's an absolutely beautiful coin, and would likely go between at 61. I am in love with the Reverse. 

Lisae, I for one am glad to have you and hope I am able to help you on you way to becoming a great Numismatist. I love that word. 

Kurt, I have no idea where Rosemont is, and am so poor that I haven't been on vacation in 42 years so can't imagine that I would take off and head that way, so we will have to get to know one another right here in there forum. I hope it winds up being a good relationship for us both. 

Gosh I hope I covered everything.

Again, absolutely gorgeous VDB.

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Mr VkurtB...   No disrespect but I did not say that forums were meant to encourage people, I said they are meant to help beginners.. A place where you can ask  questions about a particular topic and exhchange views...Also you can be honest, but sometimes brutally honest can be taken down a notch, so it doesn't come across discouraging or rude especially to the younger collectors..who are enjoying the same thing u have enjoyed for 56 yrs " R they ?R they really?". I did not write that post directed to anyone..I wrote it as my opinion.. You didn't have to comment on it, it was not a question. I can tell you don't engage in "Happy Talk".  You have made that abuntently clear... But here is a question, why answer if u going to be "rude/brutally"honest? I'm sure the other members can give information ,their opinions  & knowledge and that would be ok.. my post was to compliment  Mrs Karen I appreciate her awesome personality.help and opinion.I never once mentioned your name or any others name..I said everyone.   Meaning the public.. I don't know u. If u took it to heart.. Not my intention .I would look into why... Maybe there's a forum that can assist u. My  honest assessment..

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I'd say 50-55.  From the photos I'm guessing some light circulation.  The peripheral lettering (both obverse & reverse) and the ear/hair mostly.

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1 hour ago, Lisae228 said:

 

Mr VkurtB...   No disrespect but I did not say that forums were meant to encourage people, I said they are meant to help beginners.. A place where you can ask  questions about a particular topic and exhchange views...Also you can be honest, but sometimes brutally honest can be taken down a notch, so it doesn't come across discouraging or rude especially to the younger collectors..who are enjoying the same thing u have enjoyed for 56 yrs " R they ?R they really?". I did not write that post directed to anyone..I wrote it as my opinion.. You didn't have to comment on it, it was not a question. I can tell you don't engage in "Happy Talk".  You have made that abuntently clear... But here is a question, why answer if u going to be "rude/brutally"honest? I'm sure the other members can give information ,their opinions  & knowledge and that would be ok.. my post was to compliment  Mrs Karen I appreciate her awesome personality.help and opinion.I never once mentioned your name or any others name..I said everyone.   Meaning the public.. I don't know u. If u took it to heart.. Not my intention .I would look into why... Maybe there's a forum that can assist u. My  honest assessment..

Once again, I've already used up all my reaction for the day. I do appreciate you honesty young lady but please don't get the idea that I am somehow a super knowledgeable collector because I am so not. 8/10x I will go google something to give someone an answer and thereby learn a little more myself. Thank you very much for your kind words about me, I've just never been one to take a compliment well.

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On 8/3/2019 at 12:55 AM, Thompson2 said:

Picked this up on impulse (I really need to stop browsing coin shops... it's gonna get me in trouble.  xD)... it was marked MS63RB <not RD... fat fingers, late night)... pretty sure that's overly optimistic.   I didn't pay a 63 price, so I'm not too upset.  

 

What says the peanut gallery?  Maybe MS60?

 

1909VDB-O-sized.jpg

1909VDB-R-sized.jpg

Have you checked the DDR list yet?

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2 hours ago, Lisae228 said:

so it doesn't come across discouraging or rude especially to the younger collectors

@Lisae228, can I be honest with you right now? The fact that what you wrote above is even a "thing" is what really bugs me. I was never brought up with that ethos. My sincere belief is that our younger folk are far too sensitive. Far too much for their own future well-being. It's a tough world out there. You need to come to grips with that, IMO.

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Alright, can we all just please shake virtual hands and each of us start fresh with the others. At this point I think we understand one another better than we did 2 or 3 days ago and thus know what to expect from each other. This great big world is full of different personalities and would be quite dull if we were all the same. So let us try to get to know one another on a fresh field by starting over now. I think we Newbies and the experts alike have much to learn from each other, both with regard to Numismatic s as well a with life and tolerance. Can we agree to try again? All of us? Please?

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30 minutes ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Have you checked the DDR list yet?

Wait... what??  Why?  Are you seeing something I’m not?  I gotta go find that site... I know you posted it somewhere,,,

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2 minutes ago, Thompson2 said:

Wait... what??  Why?  Are you seeing something I’m not?  I gotta go find that site... I know you posted it somewhere,,,

DoubledDie.com

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9 minutes ago, KarenHolcomb said:

DoubledDie.com

Did you see something that makes you think it might be a DDR?  I’m not see not even a hint, although I suck at seeing that stuff...  gives me a headache.., lol

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2 hours ago, Thompson2 said:

Did you see something that makes you think it might be a DDR?  I’m not see not even a hint, although I suck at seeing that stuff...  gives me a headache.., lol

I too suck at seeing Doubling, but I am better at seeing it in the design elements than the letters. There is something at the tip of the left Wheat Ear that looks a little funny. Probably just damage like the tip being flattened down some but it's worth checking the listings for the markers and other doubling associated with the listings for that left ear. If it's not damage. I can't tell but there are several listings for that left side.

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Yes everyone can find a DD. But the cherry pickers guide. Volume one goes from cents to nickels. Volume two from nickels up. They not only have the price. But pictures of were they are pointed to by a red arrow. So get a loop and the books your in bussines.

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The 1909 has a DD. It's not well known but is in the books. In a good grade like a MS 65 or 66 it's has a better price than the regular V.D.B. I own one in MS 65. Red. Not a big price. Mike

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I went back and re-looked. While I do own an MS65RD [not so red anymore] slabbed [old small ANACS slab] 1909VDB, yours is waaaaaay better than my "album piece".

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On 8/6/2019 at 4:08 AM, MIKE BYRNE said:

Yes everyone can find a DD. But the cherry pickers guide. Volume one goes from cents to nickels. Volume two from nickels up. They not only have the price. But pictures of were they are pointed to by a red arrow. So get a loop and the books your in bussines.

While great for reference the price guide portion of that book is better off ignored in most cases.  Many of the minor varieties are not recognized and attributed by the 2 big third party graders so actually tracking records for census and sales data is difficult at best.  Yes, ANACS will certify practically every variety.  Since most of their coins sell at, or near, raw coin costs that might be a better way to get actual sales records.  Still, auctions of minor varieties & obscure die pairings can be plagued by inactivity in bidding if not well marketed in advance.

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That's the only books that you will find them all minor and major. I'm a member of the ANA, most if not all depend on those two volumes. . What other books  points to something your  you can't see with a loop. Fortunately not the naked eye.. Some so minor you think they won't be there believe me I have found the minors in there . I suggest you take another look. Just my opinion. And thousands upon thousands in the hobby. I sent a 1944 cent to that grading company and it came back as a DD. . Took it out sent it to two other graders. I got a MS 66 and a MS 67. Yes and I paid the extra saying it was a DD. Sorry no luck. Another coin came back with a set of the letters three sets that's nine. I didn't understand two one I knew was late die strike. So I called they had no idea what they ment. Asked for a suoervisor. After fifteen minutes I got one has no idea what in was talking abiut. Then again what can you expect for eight dollars. The Smithsonian institution just tested all the top three graders slabs and the quality. Anacs was last PCGS second. And NGC one. They proceed to put three hundred of our mostly famous expensive and rarest coins in the NGC holders. You only get what you pay dor. I found this statement to be true. Take care enjoy the hobby. 

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On 8/6/2019 at 2:10 PM, VKurtB said:

I went back and re-looked. While I do own an MS65RD [not so red anymore] slabbed [old small ANACS slab] 1909VDB, yours is waaaaaay better than my "album piece".

I don't compare . I just know what he label say red MS 65. No marks no dings no scratches looks like it was made yesterday. But the double die be a for a nice orice. That's the 1909 VDB  no a nothing.no other mint. Check your books you will tell you and show you. Books are the hobby. Thanks Mike.

 

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