Got nipped in my biscuits
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I just received my winning tokens from a recent large Conder token auction where all the tokens were slabbed by PCGS.  I am generally wary on their graded conder tokens as I have seen a number that were obviously attributed incorrectly, so I try to do my due diligence before bidding.

One of the tokens I won was slabbed as a quite rare Yorkshire Huddersfield DH 14.  This token is identical to the very common Lancashire Manchester DH 127, the only difference is in the edge lettering.  The Huddersfied edge is "PAYABLE AT IOHN DOWNINGS HUDDERSFIELD" while the Manchester edge is "PAYABLE AT I. FIELDINGS MANCHESTER".  Should be easy enough to get the attribution correct for PCGS you would think.

You guessed it - looking at the edge between the contact points I can clearly see "PAYABLE AT ... IELDINGS ... ANCHESTER".

 

 

LancashireManchesterDH127Obv.jpg

LancashireManchesterDH127Rev.jpg

LancashireManchesterDH127Slab.jpg

Edited by farthing

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Farthing,

You're not the first person I've heard of that has had these problems with PCGS and conder tokens.  Though I know very little about conder tokens, I do know that they're just one area where PCGS doesn't do so hot with non-US coins, tokens and medals.  PCGS seems to get things more or less correct with US material, but I'd definitely avoid them for non-US material.  I'm sorry to hear about your experience.  It really sucks to think you're getting that rare piece for your collection only to have it show up with an unexpected, unpleasant surprise.  Can you return it to the seller?  I would contact them and see what they can do....maybe you won't be stuck with it.  Though there are people on here that are still complaining about NGC's decision to disallow PCGS coins in their Registry Sets, things like this show what a correct and wise decision that truly was.

Best of luck.  I really hope you're not stuck with it.

~Tom

Edited by Mohawk

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1 hour ago, Just Bob said:

Does the PCGS  buy-back guarantee cover things like this?

I need to call them to find out what my options are.

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I was also surprised to note that PCGS straight graded 2 of the conder tokens in this auction that had collector's numbers inked on the obverse of the tokens.  I also saw another PCGS straight graded token with an inked number in a different auction.

This was graded 64BN with no mention of the enhancement.

 

MiddlesexSpenceDH714bInkedObv.jpg

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4 hours ago, farthing said:

I was also surprised to note that PCGS straight graded 2 of the conder tokens in this auction that had collector's numbers inked on the obverse of the tokens.  I also saw another PCGS straight graded token with an inked number in a different auction.

This was graded 64BN with no mention of the enhancement.

 

MiddlesexSpenceDH714bInkedObv.jpg

Once again, just stellar work from PCGS.  I feel that they've earned a nice, sarcastic :golfclap:  That's just ridiculous.  If I were in the mood to waste time and money, I'd sign up with them, write something on a Morgan or Peace Dollar with a Sharpie and see what they graded it as.  It upsets me that someone paid them good money to grade these tokens accurately and you further paid good money to add them to your collection. 

Edited by Mohawk

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The inked number wouldn't bother most Conder token collectors.  That was standard procedure among collectors in the 18th and early 19th century.  I have  few such pieces in my collection.  If you can get lucky and identify the collection they came from they can even command a premium, but that is unusual.

As for the question about PCGS's guarantee, yes it would cover it because they do guarantee attributions.  If it was an NGC slab it would not be covered.  Last I knew they didn't cover attributions.  And NGC is not perfect with these either.  A few years a group of something like 285 NGC slabbed Conders came up in an auction at one of the major houses.  40 of them (14%) were misattributed including one common variety that was attributed as an RRR variety that sold for close to $4K in the sale.

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I too have several inked Conder tokens in my collection, one of which can be traced back to D.T. Batty's collection (he is noted for his "Batty's Catalogue of the Copper Coinage of Great Britain, Ireland, British Isles, and Colonies, Local & Private Tokens, Jettons, & c." who had a collection of 25,000+ varieties that were inked to match the index number in his catalogue).

 

I also have one NGC token attributed incorrectly, but it is one of the many Wilkinson varieties and it is graded as AU50 (I grade it somewhat lower).

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