1804 Carlos IIII 8r 1 1

[Hinkle]

A neighbor brung this over for me to check out. Where just wondering about the history on this. Pretty interesting. What would be your thoughts. 

[Hinkle]

[Greenstang]

That is an 1804 silver Spanish Colony 8 Real from Mexico City also known as a Piece of Eight.

This has been counterfeited so I can't say if it is authentic or not. Something about the eye that doesn't look right. It should weigh 27g if genuine.

[Hinkle]

41 minutes ago, Greenstang said:

That is an 1804 silver Spanish Colony 8 Real from Mexico City also known as a Piece of Eight.

This has been counterfeited so I can't say if it is authentic or not. Something about the eye that doesn't look right. It should weigh 27g if genuine.

Weight 26.22

[JKK]

Well, it's within weight tolerances. Looks like you probably have an authentic chopped piece of eight. Those countermarks probably resulted from circulation in Asia (where a 'chop' is a specific type of countermark, namely a merchant's stamp of approval).

[Mohawk]

2 hours ago, JKK said:

Well, it's within weight tolerances. Looks like you probably have an authentic chopped piece of eight. Those countermarks probably resulted from circulation in Asia (where a 'chop' is a specific type of countermark, namely a merchant's stamp of approval).

For what it's worth, I believe that you're correct Jonathan....it's the real deal.  But, this brought up a thought in my head.....has anyone ever heard of faking chop marks?  Their presence on certain coins (pieces of 8, Maria Theresa thalers, US Trade Dollars, US/Philippine Pesos) are often an indication of authenticity, so I wonder if anyone has ever faked chop marks in any way, for whatever reason.

[coinsandmedals]

1 hour ago, Mohawk said:

For what it's worth, I believe that you're correct Jonathan....it's the real deal.  But, this brought up a thought in my head.....has anyone ever heard of faking chop marks?  Their presence on certain coins (pieces of 8, Maria Theresa thalers, US Trade Dollars, US/Philippine Pesos) are often an indication of authenticity, so I wonder if anyone has ever faked chop marks in any way, for whatever reason.

Hmmm, I know for sure that countermarks have been counterfeited. One would need to look no further than the British counter-marked 8 reales under George III. Those were heavily counterfeited to the extent that the British government contracted Boulton to completely strike over the 8 reales with the 1804 Bank of England dollars. I know I have also seen coins at auction noted as being genuine with a counterfeit chop mark. Isn’t it crazy what people will do to try to cheat collectors out of money? 

[Mohawk]

6 minutes ago, coinsandmedals said:

Hmmm, I know for sure that countermarks have been counterfeited. One would need to look no further than the British counter-marked 8 reales under George III. Those were heavily counterfeited to the extent that the British government contracted Boulton to completely strike over the 8 reales with the 1804 Bank of England dollars. I know I have also seen coins at auction noted as being genuine with a counterfeit chop mark. Isn’t it crazy what people will do to try to cheat collectors out of money? 

Man, Don, that is nuts!  Now, I knew about the countermarked 8 reales but I didn't know that the countermarks were counterfeited!  That's really crazy.....this is part of what I love about being here so much, you never know what I'm going to learn next!  Thank you so much for sharing that, my friend.

~Tom

[TwoKopeiki]

Most definitely a counterfeit. Design elements (portrait, reverse shield, legend) are not even close to the regal king punches used in Mexico. Might be a contemporary forgery, which would still have value to collectors.