Pride of Two Nations 2019 1 1

[FairTradeAct_1935]

I drank the Kool-Aide: I purchased the set the minute it was released. I am excited for the new finish and the nostalgia with the S.E paired with the Maple leaf. What is your guys opinion on the future of the set, Possible demand or possible return? 

[mrscott304]

I also purchased a couple of these sets. At 100,000 American sets and 10,000 Canadian sets I expect them to be in high demand and bring in a decent premium in the near future.

 

[FairTradeAct_1935]

Yes Sir. that was my thought process. I already see cats marking the out of the set before the release date on EBay Roughly between $200-$1000...

[Mohawk]

Honest truth?  Okay, I'll give you my thoughts but they may not be what you want to hear.......

I think that they'll be like most other US Mint products that have been put out since 1999.  They'll be hotter than the sun for a short while but once the moment has passed, they'll die.  By this time next year, I think the premium will be gone because the novelty will be gone.

But......I could be completely wrong.  The set does contain another ASE with a funny finish, and they sometimes defy logic.  But, then again, it is yet another ASE with a funny finish......that could hurt it as well as help it.  I think a lot of longtime collectors are getting tired of this kind of thing.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Mohawk

[KEITH KOHART]

I was curious.Since this is my maiden post.Can I request the new 2-Coin holder?

If so, how much would it be? Where do I put thie on the Submission Form?

 I Purchased 2 set of USA-CANADA sets.

[FairTradeAct_1935]

39 minutes ago, Mohawk said:

Honest truth?  Okay, I'll give you my thoughts but they may not be what you want to hear.......

I think that they'll be like most other US Mint products that have been put out since 1999.  They'll be hotter than the sun for a short while but once the moment has passed, they'll die.  By this time next year, I think the premium will be gone because the novelty will be gone.

But......I could be completely wrong.  The set does contain another ASE with a funny finish, and they sometimes defy logic.  But, then again, it is yet another ASE with a funny finish......that could hurt it as well as help it.  I think a lot of longtime collectors are getting tired of this kind of thing.

Interesting point of view my friend. I think it will stick around due to the low mintage/relative and the "funny finish". Some S.E. collectors myself included collect only the unique finishes or low mintage dates/semi-key dates. Will it command stupid $$ in 20-30 yrs?, only time will tell. I was doing some research or scouting threads on various sites and there seems to be a mixed emotion. Some people/collectors believe it will be a key date others believe it will die down like you have stated..

Edited July 4, 2019 by FairTradeAct_1935

[Mokiechan]

3 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Honest truth?  Okay, I'll give you my thoughts but they may not be what you want to hear.......

I think that they'll be like most other US Mint products that have been put out since 1999.  They'll be hotter than the sun for a short while but once the moment has passed, they'll die.  By this time next year, I think the premium will be gone because the novelty will be gone.

But......I could be completely wrong.  The set does contain another ASE with a funny finish, and they sometimes defy logic.  But, then again, it is yet another ASE with a funny finish......that could hurt it as well as help it.  I think a lot of longtime collectors are getting tired of this kind of thing.

I am with Mohawk on this, although there are different finishes for both the ASE and Maple Leaf collectors, it is becoming too much and the market is starting to yawn.  This reminds of my days pursuing comic books when all of a sudden DC and Marvel decided to maximize their profits by placing different covers on the same issue of comic, in some cases, over 10 different covers for the same exact content.  At first they were red hot but a year later and to this day, they are worth zero premium over a regular issue with a single cover.  The Canadian issue with different packaging (being the only difference) might do better since they only made 10,000 but in the end, they will not become investment grade material.  My rule for all US Issues of the last 10 years, wait a year and pick it up for half price. 

[Mohawk]

4 hours ago, FairTradeAct_1935 said:

Interesting point of view my friend. I think it will stick around due to the low mintage/relative and the "funny finish". Some S.E. collectors myself included collect only the unique finishes or low mintage dates/semi-key dates. Will it command stupid $$ in 20-30 yrs?, only time will tell. I was doing some research or scouting threads on various sites and there seems to be a mixed emotion. Some people/collectors believe it will be a key date others believe it will die down like you have stated..

Thanks for the kind reply to my thoughts, even though we disagree.  Discussions like this are part of what makes this board much better than any other coin forum around.  And you're right....only time will tell. I could be right or you could be right.  You do make a point that some ASE collectors do chase items like this, but in my experience, you guys are something of a rarity.  Many ASE collectors that I know are rapidly becoming former ASE collectors because of issues like the Pride of Two Nations set.  No matter where you are on the issue, it will undoubtedly be interesting to see how it does in the coming months.

[Mohawk]

2 hours ago, Mokiechan said:

I am with Mohawk on this, although there are different finishes for both the ASE and Maple Leaf collectors, it is becoming too much and the market is starting to yawn.  This reminds of my days pursuing comic books when all of a sudden DC and Marvel decided to maximize their profits by placing different covers on the same issue of comic, in some cases, over 10 different covers for the same exact content.  At first they were red hot but a year later and to this day, they are worth zero premium over a regular issue with a single cover.  The Canadian issue with different packaging (being the only difference) might do better since they only made 10,000 but in the end, they will not become investment grade material.  My rule for all US Issues of the last 10 years, wait a year and pick it up for half price. 

That's a great comparison, Mokie and I agree with every point you've made.  Completist ASE collectors now have to acquire five ASEs this year.  I remember when I first got going in coins again in 1999, it was two: the regular bullion strike and the proof from Philadelphia.  Now it's five: two regular proofs, one W and one S, the bullion strike, the burnished and now this goofy thing.  And then there's the Maple Leaf and that's a whole other issue, as we know.  I think this is going to crash and crash hard eventually.  If I were an ASE collector now, I'd say screw them all aside from the Burnished series.......those are the sleepers and the ones that actually have some upward potential, as you aptly pointed out in your Journal.  I think that, sadly, the Burnished issue is the one that gets ignored when another gimmick ASE comes out, but they're arguably the most beautiful version of the coin.  There was a time when collectors hated the Sandblast and Satin proof US Gold coins from the early 20th Century, mostly in their era of issuance....now they're beloved by US collectors and command amazing premiums.  Though the Burnished ASE's get the least love of the whole ASE lot now, they could have their day in the future as the Sandblast and Satin proof US gold coins have.  I'm not saying that the Burnished ASE series will ever reach those heights, but if they do have their day......they're going to move up in value considerably.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Mohawk

[FairTradeAct_1935]

Absolutely agree with you guys!! Well stated and points taken. It’s true the US Mint is milking the S.E worse than Disney milking Marvel (Bless Mr. Lee). Which is why I only collect semi-date or Unique finish. At one point I was focusing on the PF series, but like mentioned above it is getting out of hand. 

It’s ironic you mentioned how boring the series has become...lol..I see nothing wrong with retiring the series maybe the next anniversary date and bring something new, fresh, just as beautiful and respected?

greatly appreciate the conversations 

Edited July 5, 2019 by FairTradeAct_1935

[Mohawk]

On 7/4/2019 at 9:13 PM, FairTradeAct_1935 said:

Absolutely agree with you guys!! Well stated and points taken. It’s true the US Mint is milking the S.E worse than Disney milking Marvel (Bless Mr. Lee). Which is why I only collect semi-date or Unique finish. At one point I was focusing on the PF series, but like mentioned above it is getting out of hand. 

It’s ironic you mentioned the boring these series has become...lol..I see nothing wrong with retiring the series maybe the next anniversary date and bring something new, fresh, just as beautiful and respected?

greatly appreciate the conversations 

I've thought that they should retire the ASE design for years.  It now has the same syndrome as most other regular issue US coins have......a design that has been around for decades and has grown stale.  In my mind, they should have done the 2006 20th Anniversary Set as a sendoff to the old design and replaced with something entirely new.  As it stands now, the same ASE design has been around for 33 years and the obverse of that design was a retread right out of the gate.  That's the problem with the entire Eagle Program aside from the Platinum Eagle....they're all retreads.  While the Platinum Eagle designs have had some flat tires, they've also had some absolute wins.  Look at the proof reverses for 2011 and 2013, to cite two great examples.  They prove to me that nice designs can be created today, which would add to the body of attractive numismatic artwork while keeping the programs fresh.  But I'm of the opinion that all of the current US coin designs should be scrapped....they've all been around for way too long, and they've grown stale, tired and boring.  If the best thing the US Mint can do is offer the same, tired stuff with funny finishes and different mint marks, then they deserve to lose collectors to other areas of collecting.  I think if the US Mint wants to draw in more collectors, which they clearly do, they need to freshen things up.  Get some new designs out there for the cent, nickel, dime, quarter, half dollar, the ASE, the AGE and the Palladium Eagle.  Many collectors don't want the same coin with different mint marks, or the same coin with funny finishes.  They want something that is truly different.  That is truly where the US Mint is lacking these days. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Mohawk
yet another typo from me

[FairTradeAct_1935]

1 hour ago, Mohawk said:

I've thought that they should retire the ASE design for years.  It now has the same syndrome as most other regular issue US coins have......a design that has been around for decades and has grown stale.  In my mind, they should have done the 2006 20th Anniversary Set as a sendoff to the old design and replaced with something entirely new.  As it stands now, the same ASE design has been around for 33 years and the obverse of that design was a retread right out of the gate.  That's the problem with the entire Eagle Program aside from the Platinum Eagle....they're all retreads.  While the Platinum Eagle designs have had some flat tires, they've also had some absolute wins.  Look at the proof reverses for 2011 and 2013, to cite two great examples.  They prove to me that nice designs can be created today, which would add to the body of attractive numismatic artwork while keeping the programs fresh.  But I'm of the opinion that all of the current US coin designs should be scrapped....they've all been around for way too long, and they've grown stale, tired and boring.  If the best thing the US Mint can do is offer the same, tired stuff with funny finishes and different mint marks, then they deserve to lose collectors to other areas of collecting.  I think if the US Mint wants to drawn in more collectors, which they clearly do, they need to freshen things up.  Get some new designs out there for the cent, nickel, dime, quarter, half dollar, the ASE, the AGE and the Palladium Eagle.  Many collectors don't want the same coin with different mint marks, or the same coin with funny finishes.  They want something that is truly different.  That is truly where the US Mint is lacking these days. 

 

Hhhmmmm...If you’re referring to the cookie cutter, same thing different toilet design? Sure no rebuttal in this corner. Where our taste and preferences may differ are, I’m more of a traditionalist. I appreciate how different artists incorporate a design to a particular series to pay tribute or pure satisfaction of the art itself/history in itself.  America is a young nation in the old world. True Story: I got into numismatics when I was a kid because I appreciated the art. As I grew older I gain more interest in history and through my hobby of coin collecting. I learned so much more because of the history of the coin. What where the economic conditions, ore availability, who was the SEC. of Treasury, political climate etc. off 1 little coin. We all collect for our own reason because we appreciate the hobby..

Again great conversation and perspective! 

Note: If any grammatical or incoherent sentences. I blame it on my IPad...

 

[Mohawk]

44 minutes ago, FairTradeAct_1935 said:

 

Hhhmmmm...If you’re referring to the cookie cutter, same thing different toilet design? Sure no rebuttal in this corner. Where our taste and preferences may differ are, I’m more of a traditionalist. I appreciate how different artists incorporate a design to a particular series to pay tribute or pure satisfaction of the art itself/history in itself.  America is a young nation in the old world. True Story: I got into numismatics when I was a kid because I appreciated the art. As I grew older I gain more interest in history and through my hobby of coin collecting. I learned so much more because of the history of the coin. What where the economic conditions, ore availability, who was the SEC. of Treasury, political climate etc. off 1 little coin. We all collect for our own reason because we appreciate the hobby..

Again great conversation and perspective! 

Note: If any grammatical or incoherent sentences. I blame it on my IPad...

 

Oh, I didn't mean to imply I'm not old school with my collecting.....I am.  I'm really old school.  The main things I collect are Roman coins from Empress Faustina the Younger and her daughter Lucilla.  I'm not a modern collector or anything like that.  I don't collect US coins at all, and I haven't since around 2010, aside for a few pieces here and there for my thematic collections of coins depicting birds and coins depicting infants.  But, I do sell US Moderns on a small scale basis to fund my own collecting.  But I sell the tried and true moderns, not the fads, stuff like 1970-S Small Date Cents, 1971-D Friendly Eagle Eisenhower Dollars, 1979 and 1981 Type 2 Proof Coinage and older proofs and SMS coins with cameo contrast....stuff like that.  So, even though I collect ancients, I am in touch with the modern US market.  Though I'm sure I could make fast money with buying the latest US Mint fads, I do not do so because I want to sell things I believe in and that have a proven track record, even if I don't collect them myself.  I also don't want to encourage the mass production of this stuff any further.  I also appreciate the artistry of coins as well.  Though I'd collect Faustina the Younger's coins no matter what because I'm absolutely fascinated by her as a person, her coins also happen to be some of the most beautiful issues of the Roman Empire.  And, since she issued coins for thirty years, you can see her start as a teen on her early coins and mature all the way to a 45 year old woman, which was the age she died at.  I'm fascinated by history myself (I have a Bachelor's and Master's degree in historical studies), but I'm just not that interested in US History.  I never have been aside from some of the history of the two states I've lived in, New York and California.  But California even loses me with that "Wild West" stuff.....I can't stand that.  Cowboys and stuff like that bore me to tears.  I'm more of a global historian and I really love the Romans and Classical Antiquity, some of the Medieval Period and the early Modern Era.  I also enjoy Modern World history to a degree as well.  So I think you and I collect different things for similar reasons, which is very cool!   And don't worry about typos.....if you hang around here (which I hope you do), you'll quickly learn that I'm the king of typos around here . 

I agree, this is a great exchange!

~Tom

Edited July 5, 2019 by Mohawk
See...told you I'm a Typo Machine!

[Revenant]

This kind pf nonsense (this set) is a big part of why I've tabled my Silver Eagle set and a lot of my NCLT collecting for now and have little interest in getting back into it.

If I had the budget I'd probably try to fill out my Pandas, Koalas, Kooks and Lunar sets, but even then I thinj I'd have trouble getting excited for the SAEs again.

[FairTradeAct_1935]

Welcome to the thread..It does seem to be the vibe in the numismatic community about the ASE. Yet people are grabbing them up on EBay..at least the unique finishes. Like stated in the above that’s my goal forward until they come out with some new. I have a boat load of un-slabbed SE almost the whole set except for the 15k (you’re high as a kite price unless I hit the big one, in that case never..lol), and minus a couple I’m in no hurry to get. 

I’ve been looking to get into to the Panda series. Those are some sharp pieces 

1 hour ago, Revenant said:

This kind pf nonsense (this set) is a big part of why I've tabled my Silver Eagle set and a lot of my NCLT collecting for now and have little interest in getting back into it.

If I had the budget I'd probably try to fill out my Pandas, Koalas, Kooks and Lunar sets, but even then I thinj I'd have trouble getting excited for the SAEs again.